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  #1  
Old 01-01-2010, 06:53 PM
kirby449 kirby449 is offline
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Default What do you think about the recent court ruling?

Hi guys

I was concerned to note the following article:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/new...m_campaign=box

What are your thoughts? Do we still have an argument or has this blown things out of the water when it comes to challenging CCA agreements?

Cheers
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2010, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirby449 View Post
Hi guys

I was concerned to note the following article:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/new...m_campaign=box

What are your thoughts? Do we still have an argument or has this blown things out of the water when it comes to challenging CCA agreements?

Cheers
Nothing is blown out of the water as there are other avenues for example;

Appeal to the House of Lords or alternativly the Human Rights Act(1998) and I suggest you read Wilson vs First County Trust(COA) 2001 or Wilson vs SOS(HLR 2003).My stance is that you can challenge anything and the recent ruling is so flawed simply because not a strong enough case was brought.Lets see what happens when the writer is taken to court and he has been waiting for the last four years but no one yet has the bottle to do it yet.When they do they have got one almighty shock coming to them.

Term
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The real evil is not the payment of money, but the secrecy attending it (Chitty L.J. in the case of Shipway v Broadwood [1899] 1 QB 369, 373). .

The courts shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner

Moneylending transactions as a class give rise to significant social problems.

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Old 02-01-2010, 01:11 AM
ian1969uk ian1969uk is offline
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As far as I can see this ruling only affects requests under Section 77/78 and we have known for ages that the lender can send any old thing and comply.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian1969uk View Post
As far as I can see this ruling only affects requests under Section 77/78 and we have known for ages that the lender can send any old thing and comply.

Hi I agree and I believe that this case also shows that it is better to wait for a creditor/DCA to start court proceedings as then the burden of proof that the agreement is fully enforceable falls on them.

dpick
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:04 AM
BOUDICCA BOUDICCA is offline
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HHJ Waksman's Judgement:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/3417.html

I note that the BBC have also reported on this!
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:17 PM
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It seems to me that it would be a good idea to completely strike out Ss 77/78 from the CCA as the courts inevitably side with the creditors; there are no sanctions against creditors for not complying within the time-frame set down in statute, and they can rememdy the breach at any time by providing a copy of one of the Mr. Men books with a bit of tweaking along the way, calling it an executed agreement and a judge says "hey ho, the banks are RIGHT" (just for a change).

T & C's can be made up at any time and written on a bit of Andrex and the judge will say "hey ho, the banks are right" (again)

They can charge what they like for fouling up our lives, and can cause untold distress by chasing us by phone, text, letter, e-mail or in person 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and a judge says "hey, ho, they are within their rights to do this, it's not really enforcement"

If we feel we have a genuine dispute with a creditor who not only fails to deal with it in a fair, reasonable way, within a fair and reasonable time-frame, causing us untold frustration, they can add to this by passing details to CRA's, because a judge has said, "hey, ho, you can report them for being facetious enough to assume that banks might be sometimes be wrong, and then their lives will even more difficult as as they have lots of red markers on their credit ratings"

I think Lenin and Stalin were quite transparent in their methods of preventing the populace from challenging the establishment........one wonders what other avenues of freedom will soon be closed to us (are there many left?)
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2010, 12:40 PM
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reg 3 of the consumer credit cancellation notices & copies of documents regulations 1983 states that signatures and names may be omitted.

However;

In respect of regulation 7 which states;

7(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either -

a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied;

or

b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.

We are of the opinion that reg 7 refers to a copy of the executed agreement and that sub sections a) or b) are in addition to this and not any alternative to sending the "actual executed agreement".

[quote] from Carey V HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (23 December 2009):

"108. Accordingly, I conclude that Reg. 7 requires a copy of the executed agreement in its original form as well as a statement of the terms as they are at the time of the request."

"SUMMARY OF FINDINGS:

234.

(4). If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms."

BOUDICCA

Last edited by BOUDICCA : 02-01-2010 at 12:41 PM. Reason: addition
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2010, 12:59 AM
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Obviosly this judge has shares in most of the CC companies.If you read the transcrpit it is totally incompatable.You can't say one thing and mean another so it need's to go to the HOL

Term
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The real evil is not the payment of money, but the secrecy attending it (Chitty L.J. in the case of Shipway v Broadwood [1899] 1 QB 369, 373). .

The courts shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner

Moneylending transactions as a class give rise to significant social problems.

Astalavista baby and I'll be back
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2010, 09:10 AM
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These ruling can be challenged. it beggars belief.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2010, 03:08 PM
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I feel nervous!!!


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