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-   -   Multiple agreements - Redfish Q2 (http://consumercreditsupport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4172)

Redfish 13-06-2009 12:34 AM

Multiple agreements - Redfish Q2
 
Hi there

My question is about remortgaging and using the extra money to pay off credit cards. I am sure this is a common occurrence. The question is, if a person was to remortgage and borrow more because of the extra equity in the property due to a rise in house prices, and use that extra money to pay of existing credit card debts and other loans what piece of law would be useful to see if the agreement was drawn up correctly?

A) what constitutes a multiple agreement in relation to a remortgage? Admin charges? Other fees, like broker's fees that are included? Cash advances?

B) What if the cash advance was above 25,000?

C) What does govern these agreements if it is determined that any individual part of the multi-part agreement do not fall below 25,000, i.e. each part is outside of the 25,000 limit? Is there no protection for the financially unsophisticated consumer?

Dragonlady 13-06-2009 08:58 AM

I think after yesterday Andrew 1.5 should answer this one. After all the Judge stated his was three parter. Section 18 of the CCA stood him in good stead.

Andrew1.5 16-06-2009 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonlady (Post 67253)
I think after yesterday Andrew 1.5 should answer this one. After all the Judge stated his was three parter. Section 18 of the CCA stood him in good stead.

If I must: :D
This is a copy of a PM I sent to Redfish, there's nothing in it which can't be said in public as this, on open forum is where everyone can learn. I'm happy to point people in certain directions, but as will be seen from the PM below, this is a complex and dangerous area to be going exploring without the proper research and support. My experiences have not come without considerable cost and effort as will be seen and I have not done this alone. Many people, the Cabot Fan Club in particular, have spent endless hours weeks and months working on this with me behind the scenes, many I have seen fallen at the hands of finance company barristers so a word of warning to anyone contemplating this - RESEARCH and get Legal advice, before you lose your home chasing a red herring. Anyway Redfish, I trust you do not mind me sharing this PM, but it's best in the open and CCS Mods please forgive the reference to thread 'over the road' but it is a pretty thorough thread and no doubt Redfish has already read the CCS thread:

Hi, Multiple Agreements are quite a complex issue and it depends a lot on when the agreement was taken out, the way the agreement is laid out, what it says and the way it says it because there are changes in the 2006 CCA which leaves the discretion to the courts. To be honest you might like to take a rummage through this thread on a different forum http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ng-within.html That should provide you with a pretty comprehensive picture of the varying obsticles you are likely to come across. There are no quick answers and I know you are hungry, but there's a considerable amount of work attached to doing things for yourself and identifying wrong doings. These companies throw barristers at LIP's and tie uneducated Judges who have little experience with the CCA in knots - I've seen it and been at the wrong end of injustices. Judges can't know everything, especially at County court levels and even more so with complex CCA issues. People take the law too literally and as LIP's think they can throw enough at Judges to make their cases stick - not so, the Barristers they employ are worth their weight in gold, because as a LIP your legal fees are meagre by comparison - I employed a barrister and laid out over 6k but it has paid off. Not everyone can do that.

Posting on open forums about these issues are all too easy and can lead people into very expensive and blind dark alleys, so do not take everything on these forums, no matter who writes them as fact, use them as guides, then confirm everything for yourself - that's what I have done and I have spent over a year and a half on mine so you can see there is no quick fix. A lot of people think they can just come and pick up answers and rush off and start a claim - it just ain't like that and never believe it is. I have been studying for over 3 yrs on the forums before I even started. I've read your posts, you know a lot already, you are no 'new poster' your style gives that away like a big red light. Whatever your reasons for finding answers just do not take what you read literally, read between the lines, do a lot of research yourself to find the relevance to your own requirements and only act once you are 150% sure of what you are doing. Litigation is very expensive when you get it wrong and I didn't spend 3 yrs plotting and planning only to faff it up by going it alone. The 6k was the icing. And I won't lure anyone to do the same by giving quick - fix advice and costing them tens of thousands of pounds in lost legal fees or a possible repo. Just learn, research, plan, research again, prepare thoroughly, get legal advice to confirm your case..then decide whether it's all going to be worth it.

Just take care..


Redfish, you stated to me that you haven't got your agreement. Once you get it and can post up the details, (removing the personal info of course) then more specific advice can be gleaned. Same goes for anyone else.

A1.5

P.S. Just bear in mind, I have absolutely NO legal training what so ever.

sparkie1723 16-06-2009 08:17 AM

Well B****y said Andrew Well said!!! County Judges not only know very little , but will never afford a LIP the protection he is entitled to under CPR 1 because they are afraid of being accused of bias from a sharp tongued barrister,

Sparkie

Redfish 16-06-2009 11:30 PM

Thanks Andrew 1.5, 3 years and 6k is frightening!! I don't mind the 3 years bit (though it's good to know that in advance), but I can't even begin to think of laying out 1k nevermind 6k!! I agree good barristers are no doubt worth their weight in gold, and it would be crazy for me to go into court without one, I know the limits to my capabilities, but as I haven't got that money then I think it's better to not even go there. I'm still going to pursue my credit cards but not my mortgage loan.

Thanks for being frank about it all.

Andrew1.5 16-06-2009 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfish (Post 67330)
Thanks Andrew 1.5, 3 years and 6k is frightening!! I don't mind the 3 years bit (though it's good to know that in advance), but I can't even begin to think of laying out 1k nevermind 6k!! I agree good barristers are no doubt worth their weight in gold, and it would be crazy for me to go into court without one, I know the limits to my capabilities, but as I haven't got that money then I think it's better to not even go there. I'm still going to pursue my credit cards but not my mortgage loan.

Thanks for being frank about it all.

Look, don't be put off, you can challenge it if it's suitable to do so, but what I'm suggesting is you open up a bit and post your agreement up for us to see and we can point you in the right direction. The problem is there are too many directions and there's no 'one size fits all answer' which many people seem to believe. Wait until you have the agreement then we can talk about it, there's plenty of time because there are appeals going on you need to be wary of. Slowly slowly catchy monkey - thats all. I'd rather be frank now than run once you are up to your neck in legal costs or facing a repo. If that happens then maybe we have to take a slightly different view of things because time will not be on your side, but post up and lets take it from there. we are here to help, not run you off with harsh words, but we all like dealing with the way things are, rather than the way we'd like them to be. ;)

maybelline 07-11-2009 02:34 PM

the recent Heath case, disappointing result but will not affect everyone, I hope. I have an awful lot to learn about this subject also, certainly would not go near it without legal assistance, as you rightly say, losing your home should not be an option (if they are repossessing then challenging the agreement- if they have it should be an option surely).

maybelline 07-11-2009 02:51 PM

what happens when an agreement is for a sum over 25K but its parts form less than that sum (pre 2006) one part is unrestricted and the other restricted (as in Heath) but are not listed as terms of the agreement and are still broken down into parts by a party other than the creditor?

BOUDICCA 07-11-2009 05:56 PM

This issue has been well discussed!

If you require information, read this:

http://www.francisbennion.com/pdfs/f...agreements.pdf

Agree with Andrew and this matter is not for the faint hearted [emphasis added]

BOUDICCA

maybelline 07-11-2009 11:18 PM

thanks, already have francis bennions site:) excellent read.


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