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michsienna
02-11-2007, 03:25 PM
hi everyone, im new to this web site, but i am hoping some one out there could give me some much needed advice,

im sat here in floods of tears,
i live in a council house with my 3 children, i am a single mother.


a couple of months ago i contacted the council repair line, to complain about my frount door, it lets in the rain and has a whooping big gap at the bottom of it, they sent a inspector out to look at it, and he told me he will get a repair man out to re-seal it, and replace the glass, as for the whooping great big gap in it, he told me thats the design of the door, (yea okay maybe hundreds of years ago, i thought to my self) i asked the inspector can i put in a new front door at my own expence a pvc one, he said yes, as long as if you move you realise you wont be able to take it with you.

i had also had this very conversation with another inspector who came out to my house back in july. (can i put in a new door) he said yes too.

both inspecters told me that the council will be replacing the old windows with new double glazing ones,at the end of this year, but NOT THE DOORS, the doors will be staying has these are the standard concil doors.

both inspectors told me yes by all means i can put a new one in my self.

last week i had managed to save up the money to get my new front door fitted


yesterday i recieved a letter in the post that i will be getting a visit from some one from the council to measure up for my new pvc windows and doors.
i burst in to tears and phoned the council, i told them what had happend she told me i should of asked for permission, in the form of a letter, she said no one was available to talk right now and that a inspector will call me tomorrow,
well today came and no one called so i phoned them at 2.30, i spoke with another woman on the phone, who to be very honest talked so down to me,i burst in to tears again.
i told her what had happend and that some one was supose to call me today, she replyed, what for, what do you expect them to say to you michelle. i said i dont know, she asked me what were the names of the inspectors who said i could put a new door in, i could only remember the ones first name,and his second name sounded like finagun,
i couldent help but snap at the woman, i started screaming down the phone, why are you talking to me this way, im a single mother who has just saved up and spent 590 pounds for a door that now there is no point for.

i felt such a idiot, i felt like she thought i was making it up, when she could hear i was crying, she dident sound so harsh to me, she told me to write a letter
and make a complaint,and i might have a chance of getting my money back.

if any one out there could please give me some advice on how to word the letter i would be so very greaful xx

Dragonlady
02-11-2007, 05:07 PM
If you can wait for the Terminator to come on line. He will be able to advise you regarding this matter.

Have you ordered the new door? Is it installed?

The council housing section will have a record of the Inspectors who came out, and what they advised you should be in their reports.

Yelling dowen the phone might help you at the time, but in the long run, doesn't really acheive much. If you are the person being yelled at, of course it will upsetting also. You have remember, the people in the office might not be the person you need to speak, but are acting as an intermediary.

If you have already paid for the door and hit has been installed, I think we need to put together a cohesive letter and see if some sort of compromise might be reached regarding the door.

Generally if you pay for something like this, you will not be compensated for the outlay. In sayuing this, there is no harm in trying to see if the Council will help to offset the cost, seeing they will be replacing the doors and windows eventually.

We have some very good letter writers on the team, so hang on and someone will be along to help.

michsienna
02-11-2007, 05:44 PM
hi thank you for replying to me dragonlady,
yes i had the door put in last week, i also have the recipte

i asked the lady on the phone, can you not check on your computer and find out the names of the last 2 inspectors that came to my house, she told me they do not keep records of this on there computers.

thank you for helping me, michelle x

Dragonlady
02-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Michelle,

You are warm and dry at least.

Now let's get started on that letter to your housing authority.

I am going to ask Cornucopia (Corny) and the Terminator (Term) to have a look at this thread and between the three of us, a good letter will be poroduced for the Council Housing Office.

Wew will need the dates the Inspectors came out to see you. The records will be somewhere. Maybe not on the office computers but there will be records on the housing maintence section computers. This is the area Term has expertise in. Corny is fanatastic at letter writing as most of us are, but she writes a very nice letter, which will make the Housing Office sit up an read. No guarantees of a refund, but maybe a happy compromise. Nothing is easy in life and things have to be negotiated.

I hope you have a cuppa made and by next week the letter will be in the Council Office.

Hang on and SMILE...

michsienna
02-11-2007, 06:28 PM
a big thank you, your so very kind for helping me, xx

Hocuspocus
02-11-2007, 07:00 PM
Hi Dl and Michsienna.

I Had a very heavy wooden front door on my council home and my passage would be soaked with driving rain as the gap would be as large as 1/2 inch and at times the Yale lock would not catch in the brass recess that sat proud from the door. I have a gable end home and thsi makes alot of difference if you are facing a certain direction ( will have to look into it better if it helps your argument and are you gable end?)

Every time i called them out they thought i was lying, eventually they commissioned a Door £250 very! heavy duty and the problem kept going..Anyway i purchased my home and got a major problem with the DG that Ive had fitted.

The surveyor for the legal file came out last week and i have learned that if a window is within building regs anyone would have a hard job pushing in court to have its removal, if the cost didn't warrent the removal for exchange, i don't see why you can't challenge this in the same way. Even though you are a Tennant.

If you have Fensa registered company and its checked and cleared by a surveyor than i can not see why you can't fight for it to remain in place.

If the surveyor says its not a good fit or poor Door then you proceed to claim from the company that fitted it, imagine how it would look that a local council removed a very good £600 door only to fit another.

I have had a few dealings with the council and you can often find someone on the phone who has an awful attitude and sadly they spend a lot of the time in the public offices being abused over counters, its no excuse and i sympathize with your position.

I would fight this as best you can, but getting 1 of those surveyors to admit they agreed will be hard, they may say we did but advised you need to apply in writing.

But still you have the backing that the door is secure and fits into health and safety standards.

There was also windows and doors being fitted in my area this year, then half way through the council stopped doing the wooden Doors, may be due to costs? I'm not sure so i have 1 Friend with DG doors and 1 with out with no sign in the future of renewal.

So it may well be you are not listed for the full package.

HP:)

michsienna
02-11-2007, 07:30 PM
hi thank you for replying to me,the door here orignaly was teriable too,it was so drafty, when we had the floods here, and to be quite honest most of the times it rains water would be coming thru the (supose to of been sealed ) frame, and the wooden panel and to have a gap at the bottom, big enough to see out side thru it,(the width of a biro pen and as long as my little finger) and be told thats the design is a utter joke.

it has been confirmed, that i would of been getting a new front door when they put in my windows, but obviously there is no need for me to have one now,

sorry to keeep going on, but i realy am gutted. xx

Hocuspocus
02-11-2007, 07:39 PM
I can understand I would also be very upset, they should have taken the complaint serious in the first place a few photos to the council and local MP would of got a better reaction i'm sure than ignorant surveyors.

The only nice thing to focus on is they install very good but basic looking doors, may be, you have a nicer looking one;).

If the council are putting in DG you know the house is secure and not due for demolition, and so hopefully you will have years in the future with your own purchased door, its nice to have something of your own, they say it belongs to the house and it can't be reimbursed but not to worry its something you achieved to do on your own and its lovely for your home.

Most people wouldn't bother, they lose a lot of money to vandalism with in their houses, So they are lucky to have you as a Tennant. Be proud of your achievement don't let them get you down.:)

michsienna
02-11-2007, 07:53 PM
that is really nice what you have put, a big thank you,
i am proud of my new door and it looks very nice, its made such a huge difference to keeping the house warmer, so in the long run its cheeper in gas bills, and far better security wise, and alot more private too, its got one of then spy hole thingy bobs on it! lol the old door was half glass, so when it was dark out side and the lights was on in the house,people could see you in the kitchen,

it was just the pricipal of the matter,what has upset me,
is to be told no doors are being replaced just windows , and yes i can put in a new door at my own expence,and i went and spent all that money, money that was most certenaly needed els where, it took alot of saving for me to get that money together to pay for it. xx

Hocuspocus
02-11-2007, 08:04 PM
Well there you go hun, the doors they are fitting are half and half and my friend has had to leave her curtains up over the door.:( your door sounds lovely.

i requested PVC covers on my front door which is a half and half opener, and i got ALL!!! glass, its awful my door opens on to main road which has a bus stop opposite and i hate clothes:rolleyes: so you can imagine the dashing i do from room to room lololololol

My front door opens up onto my kitchen door, its a nightmare feel like asking the bus Que " would you like 1 rasher or 2" while they waiting for the bus in the mornings.:D

Jster$$$
02-11-2007, 08:10 PM
My front door opens up onto my kitchen door, its a nightmare feel like asking the bus Que " would you like 1 rasher or 2" while they waiting for the bus in the mornings.:D

you could make a few quid HP :D

Hocuspocus
02-11-2007, 08:21 PM
LMAO ever tasted my cooking :( :D

michsienna
02-11-2007, 08:39 PM
oh no, nightmare! lol

Hocuspocus
02-11-2007, 08:41 PM
oh no, nightmare! lol


LOL I'm going to say I'm a local and apply for a new bus stop right out side your gate ;) :D:D then charge £1 per peep through your spy glass into your kitchen.:p:D

michsienna
02-11-2007, 09:10 PM
lol !
thank you everyone for cheering me up xx

Cornucopia
02-11-2007, 09:57 PM
Hi all, welcome Michsienna, oh and thank you DL for the vote of confidence with my letter writing abilities!:D

As there is no immediate life and death situation with this (and as I have spent the evening with my little one at her school disco:rolleyes:), I intend to pick this up over the weekend, if that is OK,

Right Michsienna, could you send me a PM with a point by point breakdown of what has happened so far. I will then compose a letter and post it up on your thread for comment.

Don't worry! We'll sort it out! However, I really think we could do with Terminator's input on this, hopefully he will pop on shortly.

Anyway, I am off to watch a film with my hubby!

Regards,

Corn x:D

Tamadus
02-11-2007, 11:58 PM
Hi Michsienna and welcome.

I see HP, DL and Corn have beaten me to this problem and your in excellent hands, especially when my old buddy Terminator sees this.

I appreciate how upsetting it can be when your told one thing and another happens, especially when you have had to scrimp and save to be able to pay for a new door. Councils have a habit of this sort of thing.

I very much doubt they will remove your new door just to replace it with one of lessor quality, but if they even start down that path then you should contact your local MP and councillor to get them fighting on your side.

Hopefully when Terminator and Corn get their heads together they will come up with another one of their excellent letters which will make the council consider some sort of compromise payment to you.

If you can get hold of a copy of those surveyors reports they should detail the advice you were given.

Hocuspocus
03-11-2007, 12:06 AM
Hi Mich
just adding this in for anyone following your thread and in case it may be of use later for you once your probs had an overhaul;)

The website may not be your loacl area but it covers many issues. :)


Ombudsman
If you are a council tenant, or housing association tenant, and have exhausted your landlord's Complaints Procedure, then you have the further option of making a complaint to the Ombudsman.

The Ombudsman investigates complaints of excessive delay or maladministration. The Ombudsman can recommend work to be carried or awards of compensation.

If you are a council tenant you should complain to the Local Government Ombudsman [see Useful contacts].

If you are a housing association tenant you should complain to the Independent Housing Ombudsman [see Useful contacts].



Sorry contact links won't transfer they are at the bottton of this page if needed they are very informative for aids.
http://www.haskc.co.uk/main.php?id=20

Perseus
03-11-2007, 01:15 AM
Hi michsienna, and welcome.
Sorry you've had such a traumatic time, and as already said on here, you've got the right people here to work on a letter.
If it hasn't already been done, I'll pm Term, and see if he can shine some light.

If you can get hold of a copy of those surveyors reports they should detail the advice you were given.
I think in the meantime if you could call your local council office and ask for copies of, or just details of the inspectors reports (which most certainly will be logged) even if they don't give you the inspectors names - just the dates will be enough to work on for now.

Chin up and hold tight.

Perseus

michsienna
03-11-2007, 08:27 AM
wow thank you so much for all your help your all amazing kind hearted people, i cant thank you enough for helping me, xx

Tamadus
03-11-2007, 08:58 AM
Ok how is this for starters.

I just noticed that mich lives in Gloucester (not a huge distance from me:D) so I took a qiuck look at Gloucester City Councils website and look what I found.

Planned programme of repairs


We may not carry out all routine repairs as soon as you report them. If these are repairs that do not cause immediate inconvenience or present a danger to occupants or to the public, we may include them in a planned programme of repairs.

Planned programmes of repairs enable similar repairs to be carried out to a number of properties within a road or estate. By doing them in a planned way we can be more efficient. An example of a planned programme of repairs is the replacement of gutters to a number of properties in the road.

Our service standard


We will inform you if your repair is to be placed in a planned programme within 5 working days of you reporting your repair. We will also give you an expected start and completion date of the programme.

Now to my mind mich was distinctly told the door would not be replaced at any time. She should have been told within 5 days if any planned programme of maintenance was being considered and when that maintenance was expected to start.

Based on the information she was given she purchased a replacement door to prevent further water ingress, which has implication of damage and disease.

IMHO the council have failed in carrying out their own written statement and should recompense mich for money she spent protecting council property.

The Terminator
03-11-2007, 10:29 AM
What you need to do is first write into the council and head it Stage 1 complaint.Detail everything that has happened and give them 10 days to reply.They will basically give you a load of balls in the reply so you then write back with the heading Stage 2 complaint this will be dealt with by a manager.Obviously they will also try and bull**** you so you then go on to stage 3 which is dealt by a director.At this point as the Council don't want adverse publicity they will offer you a goodwill gesture.If they are pedantic enough not to have given up at this stage then report them to the Local Goverment Ombudsman that usually do's the trick.Any problems PM me.

Regards

Term

Dragonlady
03-11-2007, 10:35 AM
Term, thank you. Corny now can get cracking on the letter for michsienna.

I told the right people would be along to help you with this. I love it when it all comes together and in less than 24 hours.

Do you want to name the Council, so when they read the thread (they do), they will know another hiding place has been discovered.

michsienna
03-11-2007, 11:12 AM
i cant believe how fantastic you are on this wonderful site, thank you again, it means so much to me, for all of your help.

they are gloucester city homes, ive been given a name of who to write the first letter to it is, MR ALAN OLDFEILD, he is the manager of the department that complaints are delt with.

thank you again from the bottom of my heart,this means alot. xx

Cornucopia
04-11-2007, 12:19 AM
OK, just a quick update for fellow posters.........Michsienna has sent me the lowdown today, I will compose the letter tomorrow and post up for comment.

Just so nobody thinks I have forgotten!

Perish the thought!!:eek::)


Regards,


Corn x:)

Tamadus
04-11-2007, 01:00 AM
We look forward to reading this letter Corn, at your convenience of course :D

Mich, one of the best things about this site is that we all pull together. We have a good team and each one has particular areas of expertise, once that expertise is concentrated onto a particular problem it's amazing what we can do.

michsienna
04-11-2007, 07:58 AM
ive noticed! your all so fantastic, its comforting to know that there are people like you guys in this world. thank you xx

Cornucopia
04-11-2007, 08:31 PM
Here it is, all comments, corrections, additions appreciated!



Your Address


Date


To


Dear Mr

Your Address/Reference
STAGE 1 COMPLAINTI

I wish to register a complaint with the Council regarding repair and maintenance issues to my home.

On XXXX I contacted the Council repair line to complain about the dilapidated state of my front door as it had a large gap that allowed both wind and water ingress. The Council sent an inspector to examine the door who advised me that a contractor would be sent to apply a sealant and replace the glass. When I questioned him about the gap, he informed me that this was the “design of the door”. I am not an expert, however, I would suggest that this is nonsense! In July 2007, I spoke to a different Inspector and asked him if I would be able to gain permission from the Council to replace the front door at my own expense. He informed me that this would be acceptable. I again posed this question to the most recent Inspector and he confirmed that this would be acceptable on the grounds that I would not be able to remove the front door should I vacate the property.

Furthermore, both Inspectors informed me that the Council would be replacing all old windows with new double glazed models by the end of this year. They both reiterated that this upgrade would not include the front doors, as they are Council standard issue. Again, it was confirmed that I could replace the door at my own expense.

To that end, I have, with great difficulty, managed to save £590.00 to have the door replaced and installed. To my utter astonishment, I received a letter dated XXXX informing me that the Council would be sending out Inspectors to take measurements to replace my windows and door. Given the sacrifices that my children and myself had made to save the funds to replace the front door, this was extremely distressing for me. I immediately contacted the Council to explain what had happened and despite the assurances of two separate Inspectors, I was told that I should have obtained written permission for the replacement of the front door prior to the work being carried out. I became very distressed at this point as the attitude of the Council staff was condescending to say the least. I was assured that an Inspector would phone me within 24 hours to discuss the matter. Of course, this did not happen. I have now been advised to issue a Stage 1 complaint.

I am extremely angry at the sequence of events, not to mention the uncaring attitude of Council staff when my complaint was made. Whatever my circumstances, I expect to be treated with courtesy and respect. I must inform you that I will be pursuing for a full refund of the amount expended by me to replace the door that was, in fact, the responsibility of the Council. I will also be reporting this matter to the Local Government Ombudsman for comment.

I request a response within 10 days of the date of this letter.


Yours sincerely


Right, I hope this is OK. Michsienna, if you want to PM me your email address, when this is completed, I will e-mail you the letter and you will only have to put your address and the council address details and print it out.

Am on and off tonight guys as we have stuff going on here, but will pop back later!

xx

Tamadus
04-11-2007, 10:16 PM
Looks great to me Corn, lets see what their reaction is to it :)

Hocuspocus
04-11-2007, 11:12 PM
Just as an added extra when the surveyor was looking at my front door ( new DG one) the focus he was working on if it goes to court is the wall faces a certain direction and so it warrents a stronger sealed door?

I think!! its south but as explained earlier im a gable end with no protection from a nieghbouring property.

just added in case its usefull later.. as it seems that was the problem for the council fitted door also.

HP:)

michsienna
05-11-2007, 01:14 PM
A BIG THANK YOU!!!

This is a great letter, xx

michsienna
08-11-2007, 01:19 PM
hi everyone, i posted the letter of today.

thank you again. xx

michsienna
09-11-2007, 04:01 PM
Hi everyone ive just recieved a phone call from a really nice man called dan, at gloucester city home,

he called to say sorry personaly and tell me how my stage one letter has been passed on to the managers, and i will have a detailed response from them with in 10 days.

dan told me, he believes the doors in my area are not being fitted this year, i asked him, so does that mean they are being fitted the begining of next year (obviously,the years nearly over any way) he replyed he couldent say when they were.
the thruth is i saw a council house in my street earlier being measured. windows AND DOOR.

he said it sounds like alot of people got there wires crossed and said things they shouldent off.

thanks again xx

Cornucopia
09-11-2007, 04:02 PM
That's great news! Post up your letter when you receive it will you and then we can decide where to go next!

Best wishes,

Corn x:)

michsienna
09-11-2007, 04:03 PM
a big thank you your a real star for helping me, will do xx

Hocuspocus
09-11-2007, 05:11 PM
Woo hoo go for it Mich, an aplology very good progress indeed :D:D:D

michsienna
09-11-2007, 07:04 PM
thank you,

i did think it was nice of the man to call, before they send out a letter in responce to the one i sent them.

he kept refering to my letter as the stage one.

xx

The Terminator
09-11-2007, 08:28 PM
His refering to a stage 1 complaint then if you don't get in joy you go to Stage 2 as I previously posted.

Regards

Term

Tamadus
09-11-2007, 11:12 PM
Your letter has woken them up and now they have to do some work or face a stage 2 complaint:)

Perseus
10-11-2007, 02:28 AM
Bearing in mind - if it gets to a stage 2, and the result of that is the complaint is upheld (in your favour) - the staff member who initially refused to / or failed to resolve the stage 1 query/complaint, will also be questioned as to why it was allowed to be referred on!
(so my little sis says who's a team leader at Shepway Council-Housing)...
Way to go michsienna

fingers crossed for a good result.

Pers

michsienna
10-11-2007, 10:11 AM
thank you everyone for your support it means so much to me xx

stadium_arcadium
15-11-2007, 12:13 PM
Hi Mich, just want to add my support, looks like you are doing great, keep at 'em!:D

michsienna
15-11-2007, 01:14 PM
hi mate thank you.

im still waiting for there reply, soon come i hope xxx

michsienna
17-11-2007, 06:13 PM
hi everyone, i today recieved a letter from gloucester city homes, a lack of scanner printer, means im going to type what the letter reads word for word.

dear miss m ryder

thank you for your complaint recieved at gloucester city homes on 9th nov 2007

firstly please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience or upset that this has caused you. i want to assure you that your initial telephone call to us on 1st nov 2007 was being investigated, but there was some difficult in contacting you at this stage.

when your complaint letter was recieved, i referred to dan delwiche, who was already investigating the issue. he had discused the situation with john mann, director of asset management, in order to clarify the situation.

as i believe dan has already explained to you over the telephone, we are not replacing doors in this financial year. the current programme of works is only for the windows, and not for doors. the inclusion of doors in some of the information regarding the windows replacement program was due to a miscommunication between ourselves and our partners, wates living space.

regarding the varying information you were given at different times, i apologise for the lack of clarity in communication, both from ourselves and our partner contractors.

although the inspectors were correct in informing you that you could replace the door at your own expense, they should also have informed you that there would need to be written permission for this to happen, for our records.

i understand your anger at the sequence of events you describe, and i am sorry that you feel our attitude has been uncaring and condescending. at no time was it our intention to cause you distress. equally it is not our intention to replace doors under any current planned programme and i cannot therefor meet the costs you have incurred.

we always strive for high quality services and your complaint will help us in the future to improve what we do for all our customers.

gloucester city homes are committed to continually improving our services and i hope you are happy with the outcome of your complaint. however, if you decide you are dissatified with my response , you can ask for the appropriate director to look into the matter again. the director will then either review the case personally of ask a senior officer who has not previously been involved in the complaint to carry out an investigation. if you are still unhappy, you can ask our chief executive to look at the case.

i have attached a feedback form and a reply envelope so that you can formally feed back at my responce to your complaint. this allows us to make sure we have resolved the complaint for you and offers you the chance to make further suggestions about how the service can be improved

yours sincerely allen oldfield

so there it is my response, i take it by that theres nothing els i can do, xx

Hocuspocus
17-11-2007, 07:44 PM
I'm not sure what you can do after this letter but I'm sure someone will be better to advise, all i can add is the same mistake did happen on my friends estate:(

Although I am a bit puzzled as to how it was Wates that had the misunderstanding as it's Wates who covered my friends estate, and from what i was aware it was the council who sent letters to residence advising doors and windows are to be replaced.?

It was not until Wates actually started on site was the "misunderstanding " uncovered.

I still see a a plus as they will not be removing the door, and you have a nice new one ;), I would have asked that as long as you hold appropriate paper work for the door and it stays within regulations how long would it remain in situ.? and would it be removed when they do plan to change the doors? or you could tackle this at the time . I know the council here used to split the area down into 5 sections, and work on them in sections so it was a 5 year turn around before any large contract work was corrected.

michsienna
17-11-2007, 08:22 PM
hi thank you for replying, no they wouldent remove my new door, even if they were replacing the doors now,

it was a council member who told me that the windows and doors will be replaced, after i had recieved a letter in the post, (which was hand posted) to arange a date and time they would call round to measure up, it was becouse the date and time was left blank on the letter that i rang the number, and thats when the lady told me doors also will be replaced. she told me no date had been made with wates as yet untill she goes and meets with them the following week, so she couldent give me a date and time they would call round to measure up, ( why the heck send a pointless letter in the first place!)

last week i did see a council house in my close being measured up, i was waiting at the bus stop, and yes the man measured the door too. there is only a few concil houses in my street, they havent measured mine, unless they just did that first house and are going to use the same measurements for the rest of the houses in this street,

its supose to be by the end of the year we get our houses double glazed,

thank you again for all your help xx

Dragonlady
17-11-2007, 08:42 PM
Michsienna,

Looks like you keep your new door and you have the assurance that the doors aren't being replaced.

They now have a record that you have the door and I am sure if they were worried about the standard they would have asked in their reply to confirm this fact.

I hope the new windows match your door when they get to do the replacements.

I am sure they realise if your spent the money you have they have a high quality door on their house.

Maybe you will set the new bench stadard for the rest of the street.

It would have been nice for them to offer some goodwill, but you can't win them all.

michsienna
17-11-2007, 08:44 PM
hi thank you for replying,

yes i agree,

and thank you all for you help and support. xx

Tamadus
17-11-2007, 11:39 PM
Personally I would escalate to a level 2 complaint, but I'm a cussed sort of guy, especially with councils :D They hate it when I arrive for council functions or at the counting hall on polling days lol.

At least you have a re-assurance that your door will not be replaced.

michsienna
18-11-2007, 09:48 AM
hi tamadus, what reasons would i give for sending a stage 2 complaint, the fact the original door was in a poor way?? xx

Tamadus
18-11-2007, 10:20 PM
Personally I would want to know why they refused to do anything about a door that was not secure against people or the elements and why you have had to spend your own (hard come by)money to secure their property.

michsienna
19-11-2007, 09:16 AM
hi everyone, i would send them a second letter if some one would care to help me again. xx

Dragonlady
19-11-2007, 09:50 AM
Therminator where are you???You are our resident expert on this...

The Terminator
19-11-2007, 03:12 PM
I've read the letter and I personally would be inclined to put in a Stage 2 complaint as their letter is only papering over their incompetence.Secondly they should reimburse you for the door and this can be found in the 1985 Landlord and Tenant Act.The parts in red should be given particular attention

SECTION 11. REPAIRING OBLIGATIONS IN SHORT LEASES
(1) In a lease to which this section applies (as to which, see sections 13 and 14) there is implied a covenant by the lessor -
(a) to keep in repair the structure and exterior of the dwelling-house (including drains, gutters and external pipes),
(b) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for the supply of water, gas and electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences, but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity), and
(c) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for space heating and heating water.
(1A) If a lease to which this section applies is a lease of a dwelling-house which forms part only of a building, then, subject to subsection (1B), the covenant implied by subsection (1) shall have effect as if—
(a) the reference in paragraph (a) of that subsection to the dwelling-house included a reference to any part of the building in which the lessor has an estate or interest; and
(b) any reference in paragraphs (b) and (c) of that subsection to an installation in the dwelling-house included a reference to an installation which, directly or indirectly, serves the dwelling-house and which either—
(1) forms part of any part of a building in which the lessor has an estate or interest; or
(ii) is owned by the lessor or under his control.
(1B)Nothing in subsection (1A) shall be construed as requiring the lessor to carry out any works or repairs unless the disrepair (or failure to maintain in working order) is such as to affect the lessee’s enjoyment of the dwelling-house or of any common parts, as defined in section 60(1) of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, which the lessee, as such, is entitled to use.
(2) The covenant implied by subsection (1) ("the lessor’s repairing covenant") shall not be construed as requiring the lessor—
(a) to carry out works or repairs for which the lessee is liable by virtue of his duty to use the premises in a tenant-like manner, or would be so liable but for an express covenant on his part,
(b) to rebuild or reinstate the premises in the case of destruction or damage by fire, or by tempest, flood or other inevitable accident, or
(c) to keep in repair or maintain anything which the lessee is entitled to remove from the dwelling-house.
(3) In determining the standard of repair required by the lessor’s repairing covenant, regard shall be had to the age, character and prospective
life of the dwelling-house and the locality in which it is situated.
(3A) In any case where—
(a) the lessor’s repairing covenant has effect as mentioned in subsection (1A), and
(b) in order to comply with the covenant the lessor needs to carry out works or repairs otherwise than in, or to an installation in, the dwelling-house, and
(c) the lessor does not have a sufficient right in the part of the building or the installation concerned to enable him to carry out the required works or repairs,
then, in any proceedings relating to a failure to comply with the lessor’s repairing covenant, so far as it requires the lessor to carry out the works or repairs in question, it shall be a defence for the lessor to prove that he used all reasonable endeavours to obtain, but was unable to obtain, such rights as would be adequate to enable him to carry out the works or repairs.
(4) A covenant by the lessee for the repair of the premises is of no effect so far as it relates to the matters mentioned in subsection (1)(a) to (c), except so far as it imposes on the lessee any of the requirements mentioned in subsection (2)(a) or (c).
(5) The reference in subsection (4) to a covenant by the lessee for the repair of the premises includes a covenant —
(a) to put in repair or deliver up in repair,
(b) to paint, point or render,
(c) to pay money in lieu of repairs by the lessee, or
(d) to pay money on account of repairs by the lessor.
(6) In a lease in which the lessor’s repairing covenant is implied there is also implied a covenant by the lessee that the lessor, or any person authorised by him in writing, may at reasonable times of the day and on giving 24 hours’ notice in writing to the occupier, enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair.

For the avoidence of doubt a court would take the view that the front door is the responsability of the Landlord to repair/renew.

Regards

Term

michsienna
19-11-2007, 03:48 PM
thank you for that terminator xx

Tamadus
19-11-2007, 09:33 PM
Good old Terminator to the rescue again :)

Cornucopia
19-11-2007, 10:07 PM
Hi MS, if you could give me a day or two, I will put together a new letter for you adding in Term's stuff.

I think we do need to go along the lines of the fact you were told that the door was going to be replaced after you had paid for the replacement yourself, also that the door was wholly inadequate and that you have saved the Council money in that you paid for it yourself when it is, in fact, their responsibility.

However polite and nice their letter was, it is not good enough under the circumstances. So, let's press ahead with the Stage 2 complaint and see where that takes us.

If you could bear with me for a day or two that would be great as I have some stuff to sort out!

Best wishes,

Corn x:)

michsienna
20-11-2007, 11:21 AM
thank you so much for all your help xx

Dragonlady
20-11-2007, 11:36 AM
Maybe you will have extra money for the festive season Michsienna. here's hoping you do.

michsienna
20-11-2007, 03:33 PM
hi dragonlady, it would be nice, lol

Hocuspocus
20-11-2007, 11:34 PM
Mich heres what Feng Shui advises of a front door.

Your front door is where you set intention about yourself and about what you want

So go stamp that foot :D:D:D

Cornucopia
24-11-2007, 07:19 PM
MS, I just wanted to let you know I hadn't forgotten about you, I have just been very busy! Will get onto this tomorrow and post up your letter!

Regards,

Corn x:)

michsienna
24-11-2007, 07:48 PM
thank you so very much, your very kind xx

The Terminator
24-11-2007, 08:22 PM
And I'll look it over before its sent.I'm sure me and Corn can put a very good letter together.Lets face it we have plenty of experience.

Regards

Term

Cornucopia
24-11-2007, 09:34 PM
And I'll look it over before its sent.I'm sure me and Corn can put a very good letter together.Lets face it we have plenty of experience.

Regards

Term

Yes we do Mr T! I'll be back...............:rolleyes::D

michsienna
26-11-2007, 11:49 AM
hi everyone,
this morning there are two teams of window fitters in my street starting to double glaze the houses, i asked a couple of blokes fitting the windows are doors being fitted they told me yes, they have been ordered and we will be fitting them in 2 weeks.
i then chatted with a bloke whos house was being done, i asked him, so your getting a new door, he replyed, well...... the lady who works for the council has said she is not 100% sure if doors will be going in as its unfair on the people who have had them fitted them selfs (this is the very lady i rang the day the letter came thru the door to say windows and doors are to be fitted and she told me doors or definatley going to be done too!, she has obviously been told not to say that any more!)

i then went over to the two blokes in charge who were looking at some other houses that are due to be done, i asked them, are doors also going to be fitted, they replyed yes with out a dought, they will be in in two weeks time.

im so sorry everyone, but im crying my eyes out again, why did the council write me that letter saying no, and that, (who i thought was a really nice bloke) dan, on the phone tell me no too.
do they think im a idiot and wouldent notice new doors on peoples houses in 2 weeks time.
michelle xx

Hocuspocus
26-11-2007, 12:02 PM
Mich I'm so sorry you have been treated this way, please hold on and try not to get to upset, I'm sure Term and Corn will be on it for you.

You have the letter stating they are not changing doors so at least you have something to clarify what they have told you;).

Bit naughty telling a neighbor they may not be getting new doors, due to other nieghbours supplying thier own,, what do they want a neighbour feud:(??

michsienna
26-11-2007, 12:07 PM
hi, hocuspocus,
what do they take me for, please dont get me wrong i am very greaful im getting the windows done, its just the money that was spent on that door, has left me so gutted. though im the only house in the street yet to be told when im having my windows put in (thats not a joke)

that man i spoke with nos hes getting a new door, the window fitters would of told him,

i saw a man the other day when i was at the bus stop, he was measuring the windows and the door..
xxx

Cornucopia
26-11-2007, 01:53 PM
MS, sorry, I got waylaid unexpectedly yesterday - I am glad though as I have seen your post. This is ridiculous. I need to have a rethink on how we will word this. Leave it with me........
:)

michsienna
26-11-2007, 02:09 PM
thank you cornucopia,your very kind xx

Tamadus
26-11-2007, 11:48 PM
This is exactly why I suggested escalating this to a level 2 complaint. It appears your local council don't have a clue what they are doing and advising.

michsienna
27-11-2007, 11:59 AM
hi everyone, ive noticed today the window fitters are not in my street, i phoned the liaison officer clare brown, and asked her whats happening with my house, as mine is the only house not to have been done. she told me, they should come to do yours with in the next couple of days, i replyed, will i know in advance, so i will be here when they call she told me no, they will just turn up when they are ready to measure up up and fit your windows.
i asked her the name of the company fitting them she told me they are called K E B.
why couldent they of measured my house yesterday, there were loads of people in the street them.fitters and the bosses
this is all getting abit werid now and upsetting, i hope they are not going to mess me around with windows next xx

michsienna
27-11-2007, 02:16 PM
hi again some one has just not long ago came round my house and measured the winds and front and back doors. xx

Dragonlady
27-11-2007, 04:18 PM
Michsienna, have you got that level 2 letter prepared to send to your Housinf Authority?

michsienna
27-11-2007, 04:24 PM
hi dragon lady, cornucopia said she would help and put a stage 2 letter together for me xx

Dragonlady
27-11-2007, 04:35 PM
Ahhh....this needs to get in the post before the end of this week.

The Terminator
27-11-2007, 08:15 PM
No worries DL it will be done by the end of the week.

Regards

Term

Cornucopia
27-11-2007, 09:11 PM
I'll be finishing it off this evening, am working full time at moment, so time a bit short! Sorry to be a nuisance. We'll get it out! x

michsienna
27-11-2007, 09:24 PM
your not being a nuisance, im so truly greatful for your help, it means so much. thank you again xx

Tamadus
28-11-2007, 12:25 AM
I assume that these windows are UPVC double glazed? In which case can somebody correct me f I am wrong but I always understood these were made to measure.

The usual timespan from measuring to fitting is 3-4 weeks as they then have to be made to the measurements.

Sounds like this lot have them ready made and are measuring to see what windows will fit where:eek:

Hocuspocus
28-11-2007, 12:58 AM
That could be the case as many housing estates are the same measurements and fittings through out, and they pvc strip the outside for any mm differences.

They are a big company I would think phoning through any homes that are to far out of line is probably turned round in days.:)

http://www.kebfabrications.co.uk/

michsienna
28-11-2007, 02:09 PM
hi, i dont know myself what is going on xx

The Terminator
28-11-2007, 09:13 PM
I assume that these windows are UPVC double glazed? In which case can somebody correct me f I am wrong but I always understood these were made to measure.

The usual timespan from measuring to fitting is 3-4 weeks as they then have to be made to the measurements.

Sounds like this lot have them ready made and are measuring to see what windows will fit where:eek:

OK: I'm going to try not to be too technical here but all openings wheather they be for doors,windows,entrences etc will not always be the same and are never exact.For example the openings to my kitchen door and living room door are different widths and as my block is mirrored it doesn't necessarly mean that all dimensions are exactly the same.In the case of replacement windows what many installers do if it is a block is to measure two or three properties then take an average and use that average as their benchmark.This is not the way to do it for reasons I have already stated.Tam is correct in what he say's they have brought a job lot at a knock down price to maxmise their profits usually from a similar scheme that has been dropped with similar characteristics and they then go around and see what will fit.When they find that some will fit into the opening but not exact they start using little tricks to pack the windows out and stick expanding foam in the gap.The only problem here is that the windows breakdown after a while and that is when the problems start.I can put hand on heart and say that for all the LA's I have worked for no doors or windows manufactured in bulk have been made to measure.

Regards

Term

michsienna
28-11-2007, 09:22 PM
hi, when the man (who had came to measure my windows and doors) was around my house yesterday i did ask him the question again, whats your window company called, fitting in the windows and doors, he told me, he was a private surveyor hired by the council to measure the windows and doors and nothing to do with the window fitting company, he hadent a clue what the company was called.

what terminata has just put, makes alot of sence.
after all it seems completly silly the fact they only done the couple of houses in my street and left my house and the two bungalows, and now the window fitters are no where to be seen in my area. xx

Glenn UK
28-11-2007, 10:39 PM
Although not directly related, i work in the construction industry, one of my clients had an apartment block built and the gap between the floor slabs and the external envelop was by design 30mm plus or minus 30mm. So in theorey the gap could have been anything between 0 - 60mm.

In fact the builders did not take a lot of notice of this and apparently the gap was in excess of 80mm in many places!!

Anyway the point is the openings for your windows and doors would have had a tolerance when they were built, assuming the have moved over the years then the gaps could be significantly different so as has already been said the pre-made windows and doors wont necessarily fit that well.

HTH
Glenn

Cornucopia
28-11-2007, 11:48 PM
Can I just say that I haven't finished this yet, it's a bit in fits and starts because.......well just because!

I will make sure you can post by end of week, hopefully tomorrow x

The Terminator
29-11-2007, 12:34 AM
Although not directly related, i work in the construction industry, one of my clients had an apartment block built and the gap between the floor slabs and the external envelop was by design 30mm plus or minus 30mm. So in theorey the gap could have been anything between 0 - 60mm.

In fact the builders did not take a lot of notice of this and apparently the gap was in excess of 80mm in many places!!

Anyway the point is the openings for your windows and doors would have had a tolerance when they were built, assuming the have moved over the years then the gaps could be significantly different so as has already been said the pre-made windows and doors wont necessarily fit that well.

HTH
Glenn

I agree Glenn in all the specifications I write in the Prems and Preambles I always give a tolerence of +/- 15mm per side for openings to allow for any expansion/shrinkage etc. But when it goes down to Joe Bloggs the builder he is more interested in making a quick buck so he takes no notice of the spec.Site Philospy: If it looks right then it don't have to be right.

Today Joe and his team are going to fit a replacement window.If the spec is followed the old window should come out and the new one fitted with the minimum of fuss:D

Joe and his gang get the old window out causing the minimum amount of damage:eek:

" Whats the size of that opening xxxx x xxxx"

" Oh **** the window aint gunna fit its too wide"

"We'll just hack out part of the reveals and make it fit,get the grinder on it no-ones gunna notice".

"Ere Joe there's a bloody great gap along this top edge I reken at least an inch and a half"

"Oh **** just fill it with expanding foam and cut it back with a stanley knife" "Its slightly ****ed no one will notice Im losing money on this job "

"I'll just stick the mastic gun up the side no one will no any diferent"

Window installed and Joe and his gang start to clear their tools away all of a sudden Terminator comes around the corner shows his I.D from the LA to the builders and the first thing he says is "Sorry to tell you lads but the windows ****ed" Joe the Builders face hits the floor.Terminator notices the excessive amount of mastic over the window head(top).

Terminator"joe I could stick an RSJ in that gap"

Joe "Well guv I'll put me hands up to it I misread the tape when I was measuring up"

Terminator thinks to himself "this is getting harder than CCS":D

This is an illistration of what you can expect.

Regards

Term

Cornucopia
29-11-2007, 12:40 AM
Seriously it makes me sick, I cannot understand why anybody doesn't research their builder and get somebody with a good rep - like my husband. Good builders never cut corners, never have to look for work and never do stuff on the cheap (except for mates rates and friends and family). They certainly don't apply expanding foam to make something fit! Shocking! Unfortunately, the whole industry is riddled with cowboys, as you probably know Term and Glenn, and it is they who win the large contracts on the basis of price. It really amazes me!

I'll be at least half them haven't a clue what a method statement or health and safety plan is!

Term, I think we need a new campaign!:D

Cornucopia
29-11-2007, 12:44 AM
Actually, to just add on to that (I am wondering if we need a thread!), but years ago, Hubby and I rented for a year while we searched for a property we really wanted (we had moved to a new town). The house we were living in was perfect so we approached to buy. It was subsequently revealed that the house had been underpinned due to subsidence. Except that even further investigation revealed that the underpinning was done using expanding foam. I kid you not.

So if I said it was now unoccupied, would you be surprised???!!!

The Terminator
29-11-2007, 12:46 AM
Good Idea Corn.

The Terminator
29-11-2007, 12:49 AM
Actually, to just add on to that (I am wondering if we need a thread!), but years ago, Hubby and I rented for a year while we searched for a property we really wanted (we had moved to a new town). The house we were living in was perfect so we approached to buy. It was subsequently revealed that the house had been underpinned due to subsidence. Except that even further investigation revealed that the underpinning was done using expanding foam. I kid you not.

So if I said it was now unoccupied, would you be surprised???!!!

Oh yeah!! Go to bed upstairs one night and end up in the basement in the morning:D

Term

Hocuspocus
29-11-2007, 03:45 AM
Term I'm LMAO I'm on the way to court with a window fitter, I wish i could post the photos but its at a bit of a sensitive time in the case.

small example:
Odd leg windows measured on the inside and order the window to that spec, it gains a gap of estimated 2 inches from the edge on the exterior wall to the window edge:eek:

Yeap you bet, I had them replaced not long after, as he didn't even in fill,:( he left the job.! to huge gaps down each side and on the bottom window just a block of wood between me and the garden!

as for the rest of teh house well theres no words to describe it!
Hes ignoring solicitors letters at this time so its not looking good for him, surveyor already been round he wouldn't even choose one of the 3 offered.


Sorry Mich Hi Jacking.

off to bed.

xx:)

michsienna
29-11-2007, 01:22 PM
not at all hocuspocus, its all very interesting, and makes a great read, i think a nerve has been hit here! xx

Hocuspocus
29-11-2007, 01:42 PM
Thanks Mich
I had the whole case OTR but in 18 months not another came along. It's amazing what you learn along the way with these problems.

One thing is for sure...unless you are skilled in the job, its very hard to know what is and isn't correct, and so you are not always in the knowledge to start a complaint early and often its not until you have to get the next worker in to do another job such as plastering or decorating do you get advised, "sorry Mame but that isn't relay what it's supposed to look like :eek:"

Another example I have is, a small flat roof fitted it was one of the driest summers 2005 and so the leak's didn't show badly until late into a late winter, by then the 6 months were up and Trading Standards advised I had less rights.?

Many jobs have different situations in the mix and not so open and closed. :) its a shame different time lengths can't be set for different work.

Cornucopia
30-11-2007, 12:10 AM
Sorry for the delay, here's the letter, I will email it to MS in a minute. Perhaps you could all read over and chop and change as you wish! I am off to bed as I have had the longest day ever but will aim to check in tomorrow lunchtime when I am at work.

Dear X

STAGE 2 COMPLAINT

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated XXXXX. Unfortunately, I am extremely dissatisfied with your explanation regarding the installation of the doors and the Councils’ unwillingness to reimburse me for my considerable outlay.

Furthermore, I require an explanation as to why I have had no choice but to replace the door, which was wholly inadequate and a security risk, on a property that belongs to you. Having undertaken some extensive research, may I draw your attention to the 1985 Landlord & Tenant Act (Section 11 – Repairs). Please take particular note of the emboldened sections :

SECTION 11. REPAIRING OBLIGATIONS IN SHORT LEASES

(1) In a lease to which this section applies (as to which, see sections 13 and 14) there is implied a covenant by the lessor -
(a) to keep in repair the structure and exterior of the dwelling-house (including drains, gutters and external pipes),
(b) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for the supply of water, gas and electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences, but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity), and
(c) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for space heating and heating water.
(1A) If a lease to which this section applies is a lease of a dwelling-house which forms part only of a building, then, subject to subsection (1B), the covenant implied by subsection (1) shall have effect as if—
(a) the reference in paragraph (a) of that subsection to the dwelling-house included a reference to any part of the building in which the lessor has an estate or interest; and
(b(b) any reference in paragraphs (b) and (c) of that subsection to an installation in the dwelling-house included a reference to an installation which, directly or indirectly, serves the dwelling-house and which either—
(1) forms part of any part of a building in which the lessor has an estate or interest; or
(ii) is owned by the lessor or under his control.
(1B)Nothing in subsection (1A) shall be construed as requiring the lessor to carry out any works or repairs unless the disrepair (or failure to maintain in working order) is such as to affect the lessee’s enjoyment of the dwelling-house or of any common parts, as defined in section 60(1) of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, which the lessee, as such, is entitled to use.
(2) The covenant implied by subsection (1) ("the lessor’s repairing covenant") shall not be construed as requiring the lessor—
(a) to carry out works or repairs for which the lessee is liable by virtue of his duty to use the premises in a tenant-like manner, or would be so liable but for an express covenant on his part,
(b) to rebuild or reinstate the premises in the case of destruction or damage by fire, or by tempest, flood or other inevitable accident, or
(c) to keep in repair or maintain anything which the lessee is entitled to remove from the dwelling-house.
(3) In determining the standard of repair required by the lessor’s repairing covenant, regard shall be had to the age, character and prospective life of the dwelling-house and the locality in which it is situated.
(3A) In any case where—
(a) the lessor’s repairing covenant has effect as mentioned in subsection (1A), and
(b) in order to comply with the covenant the lessor needs to carry out works or repairs otherwise than in, or to an installation in, the dwelling-house, and
(c) the lessor does not have a sufficient right in the part of the building or the installation concerned to enable him to carry out the required works or repairs,
then, in any proceedings relating to a failure to comply with the lessor’s repairing covenant, so far as it requires the lessor to carry out the works or repairs in question, it shall be a defence for the lessor to prove that he used all reasonable endeavours to obtain, but was unable to obtain, such rights as would be adequate to enable him to carry out the works or repairs.
(4) A covenant by the lessee for the repair of the premises is of no effect so far as it relates to the matters mentioned in subsection (1)(a) to (c), except so far as it imposes on the lessee any of the requirements mentioned in subsection (2)(a) or (c).
(5) The reference in subsection (4) to a covenant by the lessee for the repair of the premises includes a covenant —
(a) to put in repair or deliver up in repair,
(b) to paint, point or render,
(c) to pay money in lieu of repairs by the lessee, or
(d) to pay money on account of repairs by the lessor.
(6) In a lease in which the lessor’s repairing covenant is implied there is also implied a covenant by the lessee that the lessor, or any person authorised by him in writing, may at reasonable times of the day and on giving 24 hours’ notice in writing to the occupier, enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair.


It has also come to my attention that a neighbour had a conversation with a member of staff at the Council, who could not confirm that his door would be replaced, on the basis that it would be unfair to those who had replaced their doors out of their own pockets. Conversely, the Contractors are still insisting that they are replacing all doors and windows and subsequently, all doors and windows continue to be measured. I have witnessed this myself as have all my neighbours! However, you are insisting that the Council has no plans to replace them despite my being in receipt of a letter stating otherwise. I do not accept that this is a miscommunication.

Therefore, given the information provided above, I request that the Council duly reconsiders my request for reimbursement of the costs of replacing my inadequate front door.

Yours sincerely



OK, the emboldened bit hasn't come out here but it has on the letter.

Night all!

Regards,

Corn x:)

The Terminator
30-11-2007, 12:30 AM
Sorry for the delay, here's the letter, I will email it to MS in a minute. Perhaps you could all read over and chop and change as you wish! I am off to bed as I have had the longest day ever but will aim to check in tomorrow lunchtime when I am at work.

Dear X

STAGE 2 COMPLAINT

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated XXXXX. Unfortunately, I am extremely dissatisfied with your explanation regarding the installation of the doors and the Councils’ unwillingness to reimburse me for my considerable outlay.

Furthermore, I require an explanation as to why I have had no choice but to replace the door, which was wholly inadequate and a security risk, on a property that belongs to you. Having undertaken some extensive research, may I draw your attention to the 1985 Landlord & Tenant Act (Section 11 – Repairs). Please take particular note of the emboldened sections :

SECTION 11. REPAIRING OBLIGATIONS IN SHORT LEASES

(1) In a lease to which this section applies (as to which, see sections 13 and 14) there is implied a covenant by the lessor -
(a) to keep in repair the structure and exterior of the dwelling-house (including drains, gutters and external pipes),
(b) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for the supply of water, gas and electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences, but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity), and
(c) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for space heating and heating water.
(1A) If a lease to which this section applies is a lease of a dwelling-house which forms part only of a building, then, subject to subsection (1B), the covenant implied by subsection (1) shall have effect as if—
(a) the reference in paragraph (a) of that subsection to the dwelling-house included a reference to any part of the building in which the lessor has an estate or interest; and
(b(b) any reference in paragraphs (b) and (c) of that subsection to an installation in the dwelling-house included a reference to an installation which, directly or indirectly, serves the dwelling-house and which either—
(1) forms part of any part of a building in which the lessor has an estate or interest; or
(ii) is owned by the lessor or under his control.
(1B)Nothing in subsection (1A) shall be construed as requiring the lessor to carry out any works or repairs unless the disrepair (or failure to maintain in working order) is such as to affect the lessee’s enjoyment of the dwelling-house or of any common parts, as defined in section 60(1) of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, which the lessee, as such, is entitled to use.
(2) The covenant implied by subsection (1) ("the lessor’s repairing covenant") shall not be construed as requiring the lessor—
(a) to carry out works or repairs for which the lessee is liable by virtue of his duty to use the premises in a tenant-like manner, or would be so liable but for an express covenant on his part,
(b) to rebuild or reinstate the premises in the case of destruction or damage by fire, or by tempest, flood or other inevitable accident, or
(c) to keep in repair or maintain anything which the lessee is entitled to remove from the dwelling-house.
(3) In determining the standard of repair required by the lessor’s repairing covenant, regard shall be had to the age, character and prospective life of the dwelling-house and the locality in which it is situated.
(3A) In any case where—
(a) the lessor’s repairing covenant has effect as mentioned in subsection (1A), and
(b) in order to comply with the covenant the lessor needs to carry out works or repairs otherwise than in, or to an installation in, the dwelling-house, and
(c) the lessor does not have a sufficient right in the part of the building or the installation concerned to enable him to carry out the required works or repairs,
then, in any proceedings relating to a failure to comply with the lessor’s repairing covenant, so far as it requires the lessor to carry out the works or repairs in question, it shall be a defence for the lessor to prove that he used all reasonable endeavours to obtain, but was unable to obtain, such rights as would be adequate to enable him to carry out the works or repairs.
(4) A covenant by the lessee for the repair of the premises is of no effect so far as it relates to the matters mentioned in subsection (1)(a) to (c), except so far as it imposes on the lessee any of the requirements mentioned in subsection (2)(a) or (c).
(5) The reference in subsection (4) to a covenant by the lessee for the repair of the premises includes a covenant —
(a) to put in repair or deliver up in repair,
(b) to paint, point or render,
(c) to pay money in lieu of repairs by the lessee, or
(d) to pay money on account of repairs by the lessor.
(6) In a lease in which the lessor’s repairing covenant is implied there is also implied a covenant by the lessee that the lessor, or any person authorised by him in writing, may at reasonable times of the day and on giving 24 hours’ notice in writing to the occupier, enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair.


It has also come to my attention that a neighbour had a conversation with a member of staff at the Council, who could not confirm that his door would be replaced, on the basis that it would be unfair to those who had replaced their doors out of their own pockets. Conversely, the Contractors are still insisting that they are replacing all doors and windows and subsequently, all doors and windows continue to be measured. I have witnessed this myself as have all my neighbours! However, you are insisting that the Council has no plans to replace them despite my being in receipt of a letter stating otherwise. I do not accept that this is a miscommunication.

Therefore, given the information provided above, I request that the Council duly reconsiders my request for reimbursement of the costs of replacing my inadequate front door.

Yours sincerely



OK, the emboldened bit hasn't come out here but it has on the letter.

Night all!

Regards,

Corn x:)

Good letter but I need to add a few bits

Term

Cornucopia
30-11-2007, 12:34 AM
That's fine (and very welcome!), perhaps you could highlight them and I can cut and paste them into the letter I have emailed MS and send her a new one. As I said, I am at work tomorrow, so this letter may not be ready for sending until Monday (I can update over weekend, although I will do my best to have a stab in my lunchhour tomorrow).

Thanks T!

Right, I really am going to bed!:rolleyes:

Hocuspocus
30-11-2007, 03:51 AM
Hi Corn
Have to confess have no idea about this stuff... but thought better to speak up just in case.:)

The section 11 is....Short Term Leasing? could this make a difference if its not short term? council tenancy usually comes with no ending date.

I know some councils do an introductory Tenancy of 12 months after which they become a secure tenant. Would a secure Tenancy be classed as a short term lease?

HP:)

The Terminator
30-11-2007, 09:07 AM
S11 Covers all repairs council of private Landlord.

Regards

Term

Hocuspocus
30-11-2007, 11:13 AM
Thanks Term :)

michsienna
30-11-2007, 12:57 PM
a big thank you this is a great letter xxxxx

michsienna
30-11-2007, 08:00 PM
i was going to get a friend to print it out tonight, but ive just noticed terminater said he would kindly add to it, so i will wait. thank you all again xx

The Terminator
02-12-2007, 02:38 AM
Sorry for the delay, here's the letter, I will email it to MS in a minute. Perhaps you could all read over and chop and change as you wish! I am off to bed as I have had the longest day ever but will aim to check in tomorrow lunchtime when I am at work.

Dear X

STAGE 2 COMPLAINT

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated XXXXX. Unfortunately, I am extremely dissatisfied with your explanation regarding the installation of the doors and the Councils’ unwillingness to reimburse me for my considerable outlay.

Furthermore, I require a substantive explanation as to why I have had no choice but to replace the door, which was wholly inadequate and a security risk, on a property of which you are the Landlord. Having undertaken some extensive research, may I draw your attention to the 1985 Landlord & Tenant Act (Section 11 – Repairs) which for the avoidence of doubt is embodied within my tenancy agreement.

SECTION 11. REPAIRING OBLIGATIONS IN SHORT LEASES

(1) In a lease to which this section applies (as to which, see sections 13 and 14) there is implied a covenant by the lessor -
(a) to keep in repair the structure and exterior of the dwelling-house (including drains, gutters and external pipes),
(b) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for the supply of water, gas and electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences, but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity), and
(c) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for space heating and heating water.
(1A) If a lease to which this section applies is a lease of a dwelling-house which forms part only of a building, then, subject to subsection (1B), the covenant implied by subsection (1) shall have effect as if—
(a) the reference in paragraph (a) of that subsection to the dwelling-house included a reference to any part of the building in which the lessor has an estate or interest; and
(b(b) any reference in paragraphs (b) and (c) of that subsection to an installation in the dwelling-house included a reference to an installation which, directly or indirectly, serves the dwelling-house and which either—
(1) forms part of any part of a building in which the lessor has an estate or interest; or
(ii) is owned by the lessor or under his control.
(1B)Nothing in subsection (1A) shall be construed as requiring the lessor to carry out any works or repairs unless the disrepair (or failure to maintain in working order) is such as to affect the lessee’s enjoyment of the dwelling-house or of any common parts, as defined in section 60(1) of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, which the lessee, as such, is entitled to use.
(2) The covenant implied by subsection (1) ("the lessor’s repairing covenant") shall not be construed as requiring the lessor—
(a) to carry out works or repairs for which the lessee is liable by virtue of his duty to use the premises in a tenant-like manner, or would be so liable but for an express covenant on his part,
(b) to rebuild or reinstate the premises in the case of destruction or damage by fire, or by tempest, flood or other inevitable accident, or
(c) to keep in repair or maintain anything which the lessee is entitled to remove from the dwelling-house.
(3) In determining the standard of repair required by the lessor’s repairing covenant, regard shall be had to the age, character and prospective life of the dwelling-house and the locality in which it is situated.
(3A) In any case where—
(a) the lessor’s repairing covenant has effect as mentioned in subsection (1A), and
(b) in order to comply with the covenant the lessor needs to carry out works or repairs otherwise than in, or to an installation in, the dwelling-house, and
(c) the lessor does not have a sufficient right in the part of the building or the installation concerned to enable him to carry out the required works or repairs,
then, in any proceedings relating to a failure to comply with the lessor’s repairing covenant, so far as it requires the lessor to carry out the works or repairs in question, it shall be a defence for the lessor to prove that he used all reasonable endeavours to obtain, but was unable to obtain, such rights as would be adequate to enable him to carry out the works or repairs.
(4) A covenant by the lessee for the repair of the premises is of no effect so far as it relates to the matters mentioned in subsection (1)(a) to (c), except so far as it imposes on the lessee any of the requirements mentioned in subsection (2)(a) or (c).
(5) The reference in subsection (4) to a covenant by the lessee for the repair of the premises includes a covenant —
(a) to put in repair or deliver up in repair,
(b) to paint, point or render,
(c) to pay money in lieu of repairs by the lessee, or
(d) to pay money on account of repairs by the lessor.
(6) In a lease in which the lessor’s repairing covenant is implied there is also implied a covenant by the lessee that the lessor, or any person authorised by him in writing, may at reasonable times of the day and on giving 24 hours’ notice in writing to the occupier, enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair.

Considering that this is the front entrance door it is appropriate that it also falls within Section 4 of the Defective Premises Act(1972) and for clarity and ease of reference Section 4 of the Act states:

4.— Landlord's duty of care in virtue of obligation or right to repair premises demised.

(1) Where premises are let under a tenancy which puts on the landlord an obligation to the tenant for the maintenance or repair of the premises, the landlord owes to all persons who might reasonably be expected to be affected by defects in the state of the premises a duty to take such care as is reasonable in all the circumstances to see that they are reasonably safe from personal injury or from damage to their property caused by a relevant defect.

In very simple terms not only have you failed to comply with the law under Section 11 but have also neglected your duty of care which would be a valid defence if disrepair proceedings were to be initiated.


It has further come to my attention that a neighbour had a conversation with a member of staff at the Council, who could not confirm that his door would be replaced, on the basis that it would be unfair to those who had replaced their doors out of their own pockets. Conversely, the Contractors are still insisting that they are replacing all doors and windows and subsequently, all doors and windows continue to be measured. I have witnessed this myself as have all my neighbours! However, you are insisting that the Council has no plans to replace them despite my being in receipt of a letter stating otherwise. I do not accept that this is a miscommunication.

Therefore, given the information provided above, I request that the Council duly reconsiders my request for reimbursement of the costs of replacing my inadequate front door.

Yours sincerely



OK, the emboldened bit hasn't come out here but it has on the letter.

Night all!

Regards,

Corn x:)

Corn: If your happy with the additions then this can be sent.

Regards

Term

michsienna
02-12-2007, 01:12 PM
a big thank you, this is great,
i will get this letter printer this evening an send it tomorrow. xx

callumsgran
02-12-2007, 02:19 PM
You might want to change the spelling of entrance on the letter before printing it off ;)

michsienna
02-12-2007, 03:40 PM
thanks for that xx

michsienna
14-12-2007, 01:57 PM
hi everyone, just a update, i sent the letter off this week, so hopefuly they would have it by now, also i had a letter hand delieverd yesterday by the liaison officer to say the windows on my house was going to be fitted next wed, i was out when she called, which was a shame, becouse i would liked to of met her and asked her a few things, regarding the doors, never mind, just wasent ment to be.
thank you again for all your continus help and support xxxxx

michsienna
19-12-2007, 02:57 PM
hi everyone, today was the day i was supose to be having my windows fitted...... the bungalow a few doors up was going to be done first thing this morning, and my house in the afternoon,
earlier this morning, the window fitters popped round to drop of the window frames and glass.
then about 11 o clock the main man on site knocked my door and told me that due to a emergency they cant do my windows today, it will have to be friday now, his boss then called him on the phone and he explained to his boss he was at my door telling me the windows to my house will not be fitted, the main man said, here speak to my boss and passed his phone over to me..... the boss told me that there was a problem with lack of glass for my window frames, i replyed no theres not, the glass is already here and i have watched one of the fitters go round checking every thing was good and ready this morning, he, (i kid you not stuttered) and said ummm well some thing has come up, i promise you we will be round friday.
one of the window fitters was sent round to gather up all the frames and glass which had been placed in the different rooms in my house, and move them into my garage.
i asked him what is really going on, becouse i knew that wasent the real reason, he relpyed, they have another job up the m5 which takes priorty over yours (cos its a private house) (and they are all from wolverhampton)
he said,the men on that job at the moment cant finish it in time so they have to go and help.he also told me they are supose to be finishing work tomorrow for the christmas season, and shouldent even be in work on friday.

about a hour ago the liaison officer clare from wates living space, called round, i opened the door and she told me, where are they, wheres your windows, i told what had happend and what all 3 men had told me, she then called her boss, only to discover that her boss was told they could not do the job becouse of lack glass for the frames.now her boss is on to it, at his end, and clare was gob smacked that they have gone on like this.she said all the people at her end have packed up for christmas and she can not garrentee they will be round on friday.

she also pulled out a nice list of new pvc front doors to choose from,( i kept the list) i take it you wont be needing one of these,she said i explained to her my situation im in with the council, she said she remembers our phone call, and told me, she really wasent in the no, as the council only decided to do doors 2 days after windows were being fitted in the area, this was still after them sending me my letter to say they will not be..but she did say im to keep on at them.

ive not heared nothing back from the council since sending them my second letter, gutted i forgot to send it recored delivery xx

michsienna
19-12-2007, 03:35 PM
hi again, the liassion officer clare had just called me back to explain what has happend, she told me she spoke with a man called lez,the boss? he said he cant say sorry enough, there was a mix up, and the house at the m5 did need to take priorty over mine, becouse od a accident on the m5, (i really havent a clue what he is going on about)
clare told me they will def be round on friday to do the job, and if they are not there by 9 am im to call her.

why couldent they have told us both that at the begining, they are such blaggers! xx

Hocuspocus
19-12-2007, 03:45 PM
Private firm juggling contracts, my guess is the private house is an insurance claim and if they don't do it they will loose the contract as may have no window glass in frames from accident and flying pieces of automobiles on M5? or
their fitter who was to go there is stuck in accident on the M5...I know, all sounds mad.....so it fits nicely into Mich's day lol:D:D


Other reason, they all gone up the pub.:rolleyes:
.

Hocuspocus
19-12-2007, 03:48 PM
deleted sorry wrong info wrong date..

michsienna
19-12-2007, 04:25 PM
lol, you ent gonna believe this, i was just out collecting my children, when i saw the window fitters van parked down the road, i then saw the very window fitter i was talking to earlier, so i shouted thought you were supose to be some where up the m5, he said, enit a joke, we have be doing a flat down the road all after noon, he said this whole council set up is a joke.
ent it just ! xx

Hocuspocus
19-12-2007, 04:32 PM
All i can say Mich is thank the stars you ! haven't got them on a call out and you have windows for the winter and Xmas.

"Hey" you have to find a positive somewhere in a negative or we would all go loppylou :D ;)

michsienna
19-12-2007, 05:40 PM
hi, i know, it is a fantastic christmas present, and im sure will self us a few quid on heating bills! xx

stadium_arcadium
19-12-2007, 05:45 PM
Hi Mich, I can't believe the way the council have treated you, it's diabolical!!!!!:mad: It sounds like the one half don't know what the other half's doing (I suppose thats typical council behaviour in any area lol)
You definately want to complain about this, as if you don't have enough to worry about!
XXX:)

michsienna
03-01-2008, 02:10 PM
hi everyone, i hope you have all had a lovely christmas!


ive not heared nothing more from the council since sending off the second letter

any surgestions on what to do next would be very much apprisated xx

Hocuspocus
03-01-2008, 04:14 PM
I thought they were coming back that Friday Before xmas? you still not sorted?:(

michsienna
03-01-2008, 05:18 PM
hi, yea i had the windows put in, but its my front door , i havent had a responce back from the council from the stage 2 complaint letter i sent them about me buying a new door when the council are fitting them any way. xx

happyhour
03-01-2008, 06:25 PM
did they give you a time frame for a response? Or is there anything on their website about response times?

Hocuspocus
03-01-2008, 09:01 PM
Oh cool some good news :) I was worried they had dropped you from the job all together. Lets hope you get an answer soon.

Dragonlady
03-01-2008, 09:02 PM
Why don't you drop them another line reminding them about your Stage 2 complaint and warn them that a Stage 3 complaint is about to be lodged.

michsienna
04-01-2008, 06:15 PM
hi, thank you so much for replying, no there has been no time frame for a responce. i worrid they might ignore the letter, i never sent it recorded so ive no proof i sent it to them. xx

michsienna
04-01-2008, 06:16 PM
hi dragon lady, yes thats what i was thinking of doing, sending the letter again, and putting at the begining this is the second time ive sent this letter. and this time i will send it recorded, xx

Cornucopia
04-01-2008, 07:24 PM
hi dragon lady, yes thats what i was thinking of doing, sending the letter again, and putting at the begining this is the second time ive sent this letter. and this time i will send it recorded, xx

Hi MS, just send something like the following :

Dear XXX

Your Ref : XXX

I wrote to you regarding my Stage 2 complaint on XXX, however, I am disappointed to note that I have yet to be afforded the courtesy of a response.

I would be grateful if you could respond within 7 days of the date of this letter. Failure to do so will leave me with no alternative but to issue a Stage 3 complaint.

I trust this will not be necessary.

Yours faithfully


Michsienna

Hope this helps!:)

michsienna
05-01-2008, 08:44 AM
a huge thank you your a star! and i wish you all the best this year your self xxx

michsienna
25-01-2008, 07:22 PM
hi everyone, this week i recieved a letter from the council to say they will pay for the door i had fitted, A HUGE THANK YOU EVERYONE WHOS HELPED ME!!

they have requested a copy of the invoice i was given when i had the door fitted, and will then send out a surveyor to come out and check the door over.

as soon as i recieved this letter i sent the invoice of.

today i did ring the council to ask if they have recieved the invoice/letter, and was told they would pass my mesage on and get back to me, .... which they never, so i will keep calling them till i do.

i also heared today that they have changed there minds again about fitting new front doors to the houses round here.

THANK YOU AGAIN XXXXXXXXX

Cornucopia
25-01-2008, 07:33 PM
hi everyone, this week i recieved a letter from the council to say they will pay for the door i had fitted, A HUGE THANK YOU EVERYONE WHOS HELPED ME!!

they have requested a copy of the invoice i was given when i had the door fitted, and will then send out a surveyor to come out and check the door over.

as soon as i recieved this letter i sent the invoice of.

today i did ring the council to ask if they have recieved the invoice/letter, and was told they would pass my mesage on and get back to me, .... which they never, so i will keep calling them till i do.

i also heared today that they have changed there minds again about fitting new front doors to the houses round here.

THANK YOU AGAIN XXXXXXXXX

That is fantastic news MS!! I am really pleased for you! It just goes to show that persistence and perserverence really do make a difference!

Shame they couldn't have been more honourable and sorted this out before Christmas so you had the money in your pocket........

Make sure you treat your kids and yourself to something nice!

Hugs,

Corn x

Hocuspocus
25-01-2008, 07:48 PM
:):)Mich you deserve this win, Pat your self on the back. and as Corny says get something nice and celebrate, not every one can face things like this. Especially when its their landlord.

xxx WELL DONE xxx

InKogneeToh
25-01-2008, 09:28 PM
Great news and well done for sticking with it! :)

Dragonlady
25-01-2008, 09:30 PM
Well done for sticking with this, and enjoy the money when you receive it.

stadium_arcadium
25-01-2008, 11:25 PM
Mich this is fantastic news!!! I am so so pleased for you! :D you SO deserve this! :D
Well done to you and of course the fab people here who have helped you!

Tamadus
26-01-2008, 12:19 AM
hi everyone, this week i recieved a letter from the council to say they will pay for the door i had fitted, A HUGE THANK YOU EVERYONE WHOS HELPED ME!!

they have requested a copy of the invoice i was given when i had the door fitted, and will then send out a surveyor to come out and check the door over.

as soon as i recieved this letter i sent the invoice of.

today i did ring the council to ask if they have recieved the invoice/letter, and was told they would pass my mesage on and get back to me, .... which they never, so i will keep calling them till i do.

i also heared today that they have changed there minds again about fitting new front doors to the houses round here.

THANK YOU AGAIN XXXXXXXXX

Congratulations Mitch, a well deserved result.

I am so glad we could help and it just shows that once each of us starts to understand the process involved we can achieve almost anything. You might have had to scrimp and save to get this door but your house will now be different to the standard doors everyone else will get :)

Enjoy the refund and treat the kids, but dont spend it all in one go please :)

The consumer revolt is spreading further afield

Jster$$$
26-01-2008, 12:22 AM
excellent news mich,

See it was all worth it in the end, well pleased for you, big congrats

J:)

michsienna
26-01-2008, 04:00 PM
hi everyone, the money is being spent on semi intesive driving course, i would love to be driving by september, thats when my oldest will be starting school, and the school i wish him to go is quite a long way away, dont fancy walking every day with him and my 2 year old daighter and 1 year old son. and by then i would of had my 4th child,

so a big thank you agan, you are all worth your weight in gold!! xxxxxxxx

happyhour
26-01-2008, 05:23 PM
ah, I'm really pleased.
Good luck with the driving!!

The Terminator
27-01-2008, 01:14 AM
Glad to have helped

Term

michsienna
31-01-2008, 01:34 PM
hi everyone, sorry to go on and on over this, but it seems its not all over yet!

im still waiting for the concil to get back to me regarding payment for the front door i had fitted.

when john mann sent me a letter saying he would refund me the money i had spent on the door when he recieves the invoice for it, i 2quickly sent the invoice to him that day.

for the nearly 2 weeks i have been calling the council asking to speak with john mann, or some one in his department to confirm they have recieved the invoice i had sent them, evry time i call i am put on hold and then told they cant get hold of any one and a message has been left for some one to comtact me. but no one ever does.

when i called the council on tue i was again put on hold, the woman came back to the phone and told me no one in his department nos nothing about john mann agreeing to pay for the front door.

yesterday i went down to the council office in person, i explaind for nearly 3 weeks i have been trying to get hold of john mann. i was told mr john mann is a very busy man, (i really wanted to say to the lady, if it wasent for us council tennants none of you lot would be here right now, but i dident, im sure she is the lady who was very rude to me at the begining,) i handed her over a copy of the letter john man had sent me, unfortunatly i made the mistake of sending them the original invoice for the door and not a copy, (but im sure if it came to it i could get another invoice)
the lady at reception pointed this out to me, so wheres the invoice she said, john has requested this of you, thats what it says in the letter. i told her i have already sent to him, nearly 2 weeks ago.
she went into another room, where i could see she was on the phone, she came back and told me a lady would call me this afternoon, some one froms johns team.......... no one called me

today i rang the council again, they new who i was even before i had a chance to say my name, i was put on hold and eventualy the lady on the phone told me, the department she is calling is busy, she will get some one to get back to me....... im still waiting and thinking shall i call them back again?

Hocuspocus
31-01-2008, 01:45 PM
I think you are a very patient person, i would be on the phone to the local newspaper asking them if they would interested in the story, if they say yes tell them you will call them back later. Then ring the council department tell them you have the newspaper on hold. If they do not get back to you within 1 hour of your call you will let the newspaper interview you. you have the letter and you will be able to get a copy invoice if the company is reputable.

Throw the book at them now they have messed you around long enough.:mad:

Dragonlady
31-01-2008, 01:46 PM
Get a duplicate receipt from the company which installed the door and I would then ring and make an appointment to see Mr Mann or his PA, I would make a copy of the duplicate receipt and and take that with me.

michsienna
31-01-2008, 01:47 PM
hi thanks for that im gonna phone them now and say the citizen our local paper wants to do a story about my situation , lol im nervous they call my bluff! xx

michsienna
31-01-2008, 01:48 PM
hi dragon lady oi will call the window company and get them to send me out another invoice xx

michsienna
31-01-2008, 01:49 PM
im on phone now to tell council about news paper xx

michsienna
31-01-2008, 01:50 PM
she has put me on hold i told her the paper wants to do a story on it......

michsienna
31-01-2008, 01:54 PM
well, the lady at reception changed her tune a little, shes calling me love now and telling me she totaly agrees with my upset over this..... john is in another meeting and the other lady as gone out, the reception lady told me she will go trace the letter i took in yesterday and go give it to him personaly xx

Hocuspocus
31-01-2008, 01:56 PM
This may be your guy Mich and if so there may be an email floating around the internet somewhere


John Mann Director of Asset Management & Regeneration

Dragonlady
31-01-2008, 01:56 PM
Oh yeah????? The proof of the pudding is in the eating. i woud keep on with this like a dog chewing a bone.

Please get a duplicate receipt, I have a feeling you might need this.

Dragonlady
31-01-2008, 01:57 PM
I would be emailing him and requesting a read receipt.

michsienna
31-01-2008, 01:58 PM
yes that is the bloke, hes one of the top dogs at gloucester city homes, xx

Hocuspocus
31-01-2008, 01:59 PM
Ok just as a bit of a warning you should really ring the newspaper first :D Mich your a spit fire...

They could ask you to get the newspaper to call thier news room, this happened to em with Lloyd's:rolleyes: thank god the paper was! interested.

But looks like it may have worked a treat. Keep kicking you have the letter don't panic the balls never going to be back in thier court. They are just dawdling and make a copy of that letter and lock away the original, never let the original go to any one Else's hand in the council.

michsienna
31-01-2008, 01:59 PM
wow the lady at reception as just called me back.....

Hocuspocus
31-01-2008, 02:03 PM
lol I'm waiting in suspense! here;)

michsienna
31-01-2008, 02:03 PM
she said she has just chased john mann down and made him listen ( yea okay)

apparently some one came out to my home and have inspected the door, (when cos i ent seen no one) and its been approved

she said some thing about the invoice has to be checked out this can take up to 2 weeks??

thank you so much, i cant believe how mentioning a paper, makes people change there tune, seriously the reception lady was speaking so nice to me and being really understanding xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dragonlady
31-01-2008, 02:05 PM
Two weeks, write a letter acknowleding this fact, and who told you, and tell them you expect payment no later than 4pm 15 February 2008.

michsienna
31-01-2008, 02:06 PM
okay will do thank you for that dragon lady xxxxx

Hocuspocus
31-01-2008, 02:09 PM
When i have a problem that i think is going to need reference to prior dates.
i have a list of actions i stick, to

1, always ask name at start of call.
2,ask for their identification number or extension ( call centers have 100s of people and 100 s of Anne's and johns you need to get them pinned down)
3, ask them what time they have this call logged on their system.

They wont ask why you want any of this, and if they do, just say i am starting a complaint and i keep controlled log of all activity so as to trace any evidence to facts.

once you have the above 98%! of the time that person will treat you with respect, as you have your missile coordinates ready to go if they don't :D:D

its about being able to make people answerable for their actions;)

I still think 2 weeks is a bit of a xxxx take but i think hes juggling funds rather than checking paper work.

but all good.:)
well done

michsienna
31-01-2008, 02:16 PM
thanks for that i have made a list and will always do that in future xxxxxx

Dragonlady
31-01-2008, 02:39 PM
It would take two weeks to get this refund through the system. have to check invoice is legit, then draw for payment,l then off to get it countersigned and then get a chque issued for payment, get the cheque signed and then back for a covering letter and then posted.

michsienna
31-01-2008, 02:43 PM
thank you for that dragon lady, it makes a lot of sence why it takes this long your very kind finding that out xx

Dragonlady
31-01-2008, 02:48 PM
We do try to help Mich and sometimes what seems an inordinate time to get something process, but when you know the process it helps in understanding. Send the letter outiining what you are expecting, so they know you are on top of the situation.

Tamadus
31-01-2008, 10:55 PM
If they havent contacted you in 2 weeks then I would not only contact your local newspaper but I'd also write telling them it was being escalated to a level 3 complaint.

Cornucopia
31-01-2008, 11:41 PM
Two weeks, write a letter acknowleding this fact, and who told you, and tell them you expect payment no later than 4pm 15 February 2008.

I'll do the letter, MS please remind me by PM or personal email. They are just screwing around. I am sorry I didn't pick up on this earlier but have been out tonight.

Hopefully, no further intervention will be needed and they will pay up. I am concerned that you sent them the original receipt. Please see if you can obtain and copy, just for your peace of mind.

Regards,

Corn x:)

michsienna
14-02-2008, 08:52 PM
hi every one, there 2 weeks are up tomorrow, im taking a wild guess ( not)that the cheque will not arive, so im thinking of calling them tomorrow??

Cornucopia
14-02-2008, 10:41 PM
Hi MS, have you sorted the receipt issue?

I would call them tomorrow, see what they say. Post up again and it appears we will have to do another letter.............

This really is shocking, but fear not....we will sort it out!

Regards,

Corn x:)

The Terminator
14-02-2008, 11:49 PM
Mich: Be patient councils are not very fast in coming forward when money is owed but if you owe them they are onto you like a ton of bricks.By all means chase them up but I know you will get a lot more mileage by putting it in writing.

Regards

Term

Dragonlady
15-02-2008, 11:40 AM
Hang in there Mich, they have the receipt, they have spoken to you.
If the cheque hasn't arrived, sdon't bother phoning, just write and remind them that they promised to re-imburse you the money and you are waiting.

Hocuspocus
15-02-2008, 02:17 PM
just a thought could they be stringing it out till end of April?

Dragonlady
15-02-2008, 05:25 PM
Yes, the finanacial year and balancing the books...

michsienna
15-02-2008, 06:58 PM
hi everyone thank you for all your support,i never rang them today i will give it another week?? and hopefuly sort out a letter to chase them up with it xx

Hocuspocus
15-02-2008, 07:56 PM
I remember April from years ago if i needed anything doing it came in April, the year was usually used for large contract work and remainder for non emergencies was April So it could actually be that but would be nicer if they explain it if it is.

michsienna
16-02-2008, 07:30 PM
thanks for all your replys, ive requested another recipte from the window fitters, so hopefuly will get that soon x

michsienna
21-02-2008, 01:49 PM
hi everyone, i couldent help myself, and i phoned the council up again a few moments ago, diane the reception lady answered the phone, and i asked to speak with john man or some one in his department, she new who i was and put me on hold, once back on the phone to me she said, johns out in a meeting, but as soon as he returns she said she will question him on it and call me back, dianne said, that it was her who was told to contact the finance department to organise payment to me, and she understands the micky taking it must seem going on, i said its been 3 weeks since i was told payment would take 2 weeks.
she said she will call me back once she finds out what is going on.
with in 5 minutes of that conversation she called me back, she told me how john had just that second returned, apparently what has happened is the finance department are waiting on my bank details to put the money straight into my account , ( okay i thought, but why not send a cheque???)

i thanked dianne for being really helpful and that was that

so hopefuly fingers crossed i will get it now. xxxx

Dragonlady
21-02-2008, 02:17 PM
Why didn't they make is simpler and ask for your account details in the first place. maybe there is an internal audit process regarding non payment of accounts by cheque.

Would have been nice to know this three weeks ago. Chin up Mich. Makes a change for the council to owe you money. oh do you know how much it is for?

michsienna
21-02-2008, 02:23 PM
hi thank you for replying to me,
im really happy bout the out come....i know what you are saying regarding them waiting on my bank details, why dident the write or ring me about this, oh well, im just happy they have agreed to pay up,

i think saying about the local paper last time i spoke with them, really got things going, can you imagine if i went puplic about it, evryone els would be putting in claims for the front doors they had put it in, ( alot have people replaced there old doors out of there own pocket) and others for other stuff they have had done to the homes. xx

michsienna
21-02-2008, 02:49 PM
the money the council owe me is 590 pounds

Cornucopia
21-02-2008, 04:05 PM
No letter writing for me today then??!!!:)

I am glad the money appears to be coming your way........let us know the minute you receive it!

Regards,


Corn x:)

Hocuspocus
21-02-2008, 06:14 PM
Good news again Mich looks like you will have it for summer now instead of christmas:D

michsienna
27-02-2008, 11:55 AM
hi everyone, i have been calling the bank every day to see if the money has been paid in....but no it hasent

i rang the council this morning and aked to speak with dianne again and told her money still hadent gone in, (she told me last week to call her back today if money still hadent been paid, )

she said she would call me back

when she did a few moments ago, she said they lost your bank details michelle, could we have them again.

apparently they are going to do it straight away now. xx

Dragonlady
27-02-2008, 05:50 PM
I would go in there and hand the details over and make some one sign a receipt for the documentation, then let them say they have lost it.

michsienna
27-02-2008, 05:53 PM
hi dragon lady,
they do take the mickey dont they , they are terriable xx

Hocuspocus
27-02-2008, 06:12 PM
Its an accidentaly on purpose case, definately get them to sign for it , you should be able to get a pink slip as a reciept and stamped.

michsienna
27-02-2008, 06:16 PM
hi, i rang the bank later this afternoon to check and see if any money was pending to go into my account, i was told no

i will give them till friday, if the money is not showing up to be being paid into my account i will , go down the council office myself, and hand over my bank details and get a recipte for doing so.

many thanks xx

michsienna
02-03-2008, 03:13 PM
hi everyone, i rang the bank today and was told if the money is not showing up in the account by 2pm today it wont be in the bank tomorrow.

its not in there

the man at the bank told me that if they had put the money into my account last thursday it would for sure be showing up now.

dianne at the council office asured me they were going to do it straight away that day.

i feel very dissapointed (pregnancy hormones are doing there bit im sure!) but im so gutted again, they really are taking the micky, the end of last week the council contractors have started fitting the new front doors in peoples houses.

i know i must seem incredabliy unpatient,and maybe even a little selfish but i really was relying on this money for the driving lessons which i so wanted to pass by september, when my eldest starts school

i feel like crying again over this, its been months now since they first agreed to pay up and it really does feel they are taking the pee out off me. xx

Hocuspocus
02-03-2008, 03:30 PM
Mich don't get upset Hun, they have no concern for your position:mad: don't let them get to you. Think of it like this if they were not changing windows and doors you may never of been able to claim and get this far, look what you have achieved.

I'm sure there will be someway of pushing this further again and someone here will know all the jargon for a letter.

Your not impatient, they said they will pay you and they should, and they should also no you will not accept this treatment, if you would you wouldn't have gone as far as you have.
But don't let them ruin your days.
(( hugs)) HP:)

michsienna
02-03-2008, 03:33 PM
hi thanks for your reply, i know i shouldent let them get to me, i am very greatul for them deciding to fit the doors, i guess i just got my hopes up xx

Dragonlady
02-03-2008, 03:48 PM
Mich,

one thing I have learnt regarding the public service and local councils, they never do things when they say are going to. You can bet they said it would bi the bank to shut you up. As it is not there and it wont be there tomorrow, I would be phoning or even going down to the Council office and making a stand.

I am not saying do what i did, but I will share this with you.

We lived in Army married quarters for a long time and some the houses are not up to standard. We had a cracked toilet bowl. I had rung got the call logged and promoised that the toilet would be replaced. Two wesk went by, so I played the game again, same promise. Another week went by, and logged a call again, to be told they would there the next day to fit a new bowl. No-one came. So the following day, I took a hammer to the toilet and smashed it. I logged the call and told them, no toilet at all it was smashed. I organised a stand down day from work, I bundled the kids up, packed some sandwiches and headed for the housing office. Fromted at the counter, introduced myself and told them I was here for the duration, as we had no toilet facilities in the house and the children and I need sanitation and water (I had turned the water off at the main), they were going to supply for us for the day. They tried to tell me that this could not be done, soI said fine, you send me home, because the housing contract states that we had to have these services. Much discussion wnt on behind closed doors, tried tog get me to go home, I didn't budge. Three hours later, with two plumbers leading the way and new toilet bowl inn their truck, we went back home to watch the installation of the new throne. Hubby (at the time) came home and said he had heard about my sit in at the housing office. he told them as I out ranked him, he was not ordering me home and they were on their own.

Sometimes direct action is needed.

Now I think a pregnant tearful lady fronting at the desk tomorrow and telling them that you aren't moving until you have the money might have an effect.

michsienna
02-03-2008, 04:16 PM
thank you for that, wow what a strong lady you are! i gonna try and sort it so i can go down there tomorrow, maybe i should use the local paper thing again, but i really dident want to go down that route and have my childrens and my face in the paper, there are certain people i dont want knowing where i live.

can i demand a cheque of them if i went down there tomorrow rather then them saying we will put it into your account that day.
saying that i know for a fact when i go down there im gonna be told the people i need to speak with are not in or are busy in meetings. xx

Cornucopia
02-03-2008, 04:35 PM
MS, sorry you are feeling upset. This really is outrageous on the part of the council.

If it were me, I would call them first thing. Tell them that despite their promises, the money has not been deposited into your account. Tell them they have until 2.00 pm to do so or you will be contacting the local press and asking them to accompany you to the council offices.

Also, what is to stop you filing a County Court claim?? I am sure that councils are not excempt from proceedings unless anybody else can advise me otherwise?

Corn x:)

Dragonlady
02-03-2008, 04:47 PM
I am not sure about demanding a cheque, but you could try.

I am sure as Corny says you can issue County Court proceedings and perhaps that would be a stronger threat rather than the papers.

Cornucopia
02-03-2008, 05:31 PM
It will cost you £30.00 to file a claim for non-payment and you can claim interest and your costs too.

They are not going to want to go to Court, any more than they would want negative local press coverage, because things like this do invariably spread to the nationals, especially given the outcry over the costs of council tax.

Use those pregnancy hormones to turn into a complete witch and terrorise them!!! ;):D

Hocuspocus
02-03-2008, 05:31 PM
Only a suggestion, I would hand deliver a letter tomorrow advising you will be in for a cheque at 3pm Tuesday, advise you have already spoken to the papers and they are interested in the story.

If the cheue is not available when you reach there you will already have the papers on stand by.

I understand the not wanting people to know where you live and its weighing up what could happen and is it worth it.

But you could try what i did with Lloyd's, call the paper ask if they would be interested tell them the whole story omitting who you are or where you live ( just explain your seeing if it is their type of story before you go further ) .

Then When you are in the council office you have the choice to call the paper ..they will be already clue up, so no explaining and you can hand your phone over to the person behind the council to explain.
( my guess is it won't get that far)


If all else fails and the blag or not blag of your choice doesn't work then i would be more to wards a court case than the papers if i was living quietly somewhere ;)

michsienna
02-03-2008, 06:57 PM
thank you for your replys its means so much,
i cant get down the council offices tomorrow so im gonna call them first thing,
i will tell them im thinking of taking them to court, durrr sorry i sound daft, but how shall i word that to them on the phone, do i say im concidering filling a county court claim aginst gloucester city homes for there failure to pay up money i was promise would be paid to me. xx

Dragonlady
02-03-2008, 07:53 PM
How about,

If the money is not in your posssion by 10am Wednesday morning 5 March,

Despite their repeated promises of payment you will be filing at 11am at the County Court for non-payment on the same day.

Tamadus
02-03-2008, 10:53 PM
I have never been an exponent of telephone promises, put simply they mean little at best and nothing at worst.

Mitch you need this in writing so I think a LETTER bEFORE aCTION is needed, giving them a set amount of time (say 7 days) then seriously consider issuing against them.

michsienna
03-03-2008, 09:20 AM
hi i just rang them and spoke with dianne again, she said how naughty they are being and understands how it must look, i told her i want the money by wed morning or come lunch time i will be filling a county court claim for non payment, i have letters to confirm money was to be payed to me and have been waiting months to recieve it, im hearing one excuse from the next, ands its only when i call the council am i hearing these excuses.there for making time drag on even more.

dianne told me she totally understands and agrees with me, she said she will pass on the message to those involved and if she hears any more she will call me back.

oh no im thinking now maybe they will want me to take em to court! xx

Dragonlady
03-03-2008, 09:59 AM
There is no way they can take you to Court.

Write an LBA and give them seven days from today's date, send it recorded delivery. See if they pay up by Wednesday, if not we will help draft up the N1 for the claim so you can lodge it with the Court.

Dianna can't do a thing and she is offering comforting words, because this is what she thinks you want to hear.

michsienna
03-03-2008, 10:03 AM
hi thanks for replying what is a LBA ,

is it a letter to just say they have 7 days which to pay or i will take them to court? xx

Dragonlady
03-03-2008, 10:12 AM
LBA is the Letter before Action.

It makes everything formal and the Council is notified that you intend to take action for the non payment of the moeny they have promised you.

There is an LBA in the Library, it is for a bank, but with a bit of clever editing it can be used for the Council.

Have a look at it and alter it to suit your circumstances.

Bits will have to be cut out and other bits added. you have all the dates you made contact with the counci you have their letter stating they will pay you for the door.

Post it up when you have it drafted up the and we will help polish it.

michsienna
03-03-2008, 10:20 AM
Request for repayment of charges - Letter before County Court Action
Account in Dispute

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Please find attached ; Schedule of Charges

Further to my letter dated xx/xx/xx, which was delivered and signed for Recorded/Special Delivery on xx/xx/xx, I am disappointed that the 14 days have passed without any response.

As advised previously, I offer a last opportunity to make unconditional repayment of the punitive and disproportionately high charges applied to my account, before I proceed with a County Court claim. If this course of action is taken, you will no doubt incurr legal expenses in representation, and I will be seeking an order requesting section 69 interest at 8%, and court costs.

I therefore request, within 14 days of delivery of this letter, a refund in the total amount of £xxxx.xx, increasing daily at £xx.xx.

An updated full breakdown of this amount is attached as a ‘Schedule of Charges’, and shows the total of charges taken, along with interest charged against them.

Additionally, I have been served a default notice on xxxxxxx. This default occurred wholly or mainly partly in respect of unlawful charges levied by you, or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account. In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that the default entry be removed from the Credit Reference Agencies and your records. It will not be acceptable to merely correct or amend the entry/record.


If you do not intend to make full repayment as requested, I will have no alternative to submit my prepared claim document to my local County Court. I hereby request, under County Court Pre-Action Protocol 4.6c, a true copy of the original Terms and Conditions in existence at the time of opening the above account, plus any and all variations to them since. This will be reaffirmed in my Particulars of Claim.


I await your timely response.


Yours faithfully,
__________________

THIS LETTER?? XX

michsienna
03-03-2008, 10:25 AM
Request for payment for the new front door- Letter before County Court Action


Dear Sir/Madam,

LETTER BEFORE ACTION REGARDING (PUT YOUR ADDRESS HERE AND THEIR REFERENCE NUMBER)

Further to your letter dated 8th January 2008. Despite repeated assurances by staff at your offices, no monies have been repaid either by cheque or Direct Credit to my bank account.

As advised previously, I offer a last opportunity to make unconditional repayment for the new door before I proceed with a County Court claim. If this course of action is taken, you will no doubt incur legal expenses in representation, and I will be seeking an order requesting section 69 interest at 8%, and court costs.

I therefore request, within 7 days of delivery of this letter, a refund in the total amount of £590.00.

If you do not make full repayment as requested by 4pm 15 March 2008, I will have no alternative to submit my prepared claim document to my local County Court at 9am 17 March 2008.


I await your timely response.


Yours faithfully,
__________________

hows this ?? xx

Dragonlady
03-03-2008, 10:45 AM
Mich,

I have just added a couple of bits to the letter. Keep an eye on the spelling corrections I have made,

michsienna
03-03-2008, 10:46 AM
thank you dragonlady, your a star! i will copy it up now xxxx

michsienna
03-03-2008, 11:30 AM
a bit of a news flash...

a man called steve hodeh just rang me,

he said he was from the council and wanted the invoice for the front door, i told him a had already gave the council the original, he said he thought that was a copy i said no, thats the real thing.
he said he needs another one and he will collect it in person when i have it , then after recieving that he will pay up for the door xx

michsienna
03-03-2008, 11:59 AM
i hope they ent messing me, when i gave them the invoice the last time, they were then supose to of checked out the company etc, it was a week after that i phoned them and they agreeded to pay me the money then. i know i should not of gave then the original how silly was i, now i guess im gonna be waiting ages for another invoice to come out to me

shall i still send the court letter to them? x

Dragonlady
03-03-2008, 12:45 PM
I would certainly send them the court letter, I have Pm'd you Mich

Dragonlady
03-03-2008, 01:02 PM
Mich,
Term (remeber, he works in Local Government, Housing) has Just PM'd me regarding this and he suggests you phone the Cheif Executive's Office at the Council and tell him what has happened.

michsienna
03-03-2008, 01:52 PM
hi everyone i just rang the council again and asked to speak with the Chief Executive of gloucester city homes, i was told he is away, i said well can i speak with his personal assistant, the receptionist asked why i said its regarding a complaint, oh i can deal with that the lady at reception said, no thanks i want to speak with who i asked for please, i replyed.

so i was put thrue to a woman called emma, his personal assistent i explained to her all what has happened,along with the pending court action and i gave her names of all the poeple i have spoken to including dianne the reseption lady,she said she will get back to me.

just has i write this , a lady has just rang, her name was pat, she is manager of the housing (cant remeber the rest) department, again i explained every thing to her, i said im being given excuse after excuse, and me requesting another invoice will only make the time its taking even longer, its not my fault they have lost my personal information i have sent to them. i also told her i am filling for a county court claim.

pat told me , what if michelle i send you a letter confirming the price for the door 590 pounds, and we go from there, then after you have that letter ( and im guessing i will have to send another letter of to them to confirm)
we will pay you money for the door. thefore you dont have to request another invoice from the window company

she said she is about to go into a meeting, but as soon as she comes out of it she will talk to the relavent people in the finacne department to get the go a head.

she will call me back later xx

InKogneeToh
03-03-2008, 01:56 PM
Is there any way you could get to the council offices today? If so, you could tell them that you want the letter done today and left in reception. You could then sign it straight away ( I would also ask for a photocopy) and there would then be no reason for any further delay. Just an idea!

michsienna
03-03-2008, 02:02 PM
thank you, that is a good idea, im trying now to find some one to take me down there xx

InKogneeToh
03-03-2008, 02:25 PM
You need to phone them first though, to make sure the letter will be done and be ready and waiting for you. Tell them you are not prepared to incur any further delay as a result of their misplacing of the original invoice!

michsienna
03-03-2008, 02:42 PM
shall i continue in sending the letter before action, ?

Dragonlady
03-03-2008, 02:51 PM
Just back and I see INk has stepped into the breach. i would still send the LBA as an insurance policy.

I told you that speaking to the CEO or his PA would soon spur them into action, because they don't want to have to explain their incompetence.

Do as Ink suggests and keep the pressure on them.

I am giggling. See what making a phone call to the right person does? It was so nice speaking to you Mich and Term's suggestion was worth the cost of the phone call.

michsienna
03-03-2008, 02:53 PM
hi, pat the lady i last spoke with said she will call me back later today, when she does i will tell her i will collect the letter in person and do what is needed at the council offices while im there.

michsienna
03-03-2008, 02:56 PM
hi it was lovely speaking with you too, many thanks for yours and everyone els support and advice

i might as well take the before action letter with me, if i do go down there later, and i will def get them to sign some thing to say they have recieved itxx

michsienna
03-03-2008, 03:29 PM
hi everyone, pat has just rang me, she said she had a quck conversation with john mann, and he said she is to email him the details including price of the door, and depending on his desion he will send me out a check.

she said john is in a meeting at the moment and it may not be till tomorrow now when he gives his answer, so she will phone me then.

im really confused now, it was john mann who sent me the letter at the beining to say i will get the money back

michsienna
03-03-2008, 03:33 PM
i dont think im getting any where with these people, im going round in circles

michsienna
03-03-2008, 03:40 PM
the lady called dianne who works at reception just rang me to say she dident want me to think she has abounded me but she said she hasent found out any more other then its all been passed on to this one guy (i presume shes talking about john mann) i dident tell her i had spoken to the others , maybe i should off, but she said if she hears any more she will contact me again

InKogneeToh
03-03-2008, 03:43 PM
Did you explain this to her? Perhaps she meant he would make the decision as to whether they would send a cheque or pay the money into your account as originally planned. You need to make her aware ( if you haven't already) that this John Mann has already agreed the payment! :rolleyes::mad: Did you get this from him in writing?

michsienna
03-03-2008, 03:51 PM
hi, pat told me this was to decide if i would get the money or not.

it was john mann who wrote a letter which he signed to say he would pay me for the door,

i also took a copy of this letter at there request and handed it in to the council personaly months ago

michsienna
03-03-2008, 03:53 PM
im sure i told her it was john who origanly said yes to paying the money, ive just tryed calling her back, and left a message for her to ring me

Dragonlady
03-03-2008, 05:31 PM
Mich,

I don't kow if things have advanced any more this afternoon.

If it hasn't, spend this evening just getting things clear.#
#
John Mann wrote and said you would paid for the door
Make sure Pat whoever is aware of this
Never mind about Dianne the receptionist
Have you sent the letter before action or handed it in yet?
ring me if you need to discuss this

michsienna
03-03-2008, 06:34 PM
hi, im sure i would of told pat it was john mann who wrote and told me i would get the money back,

i will send the letter before action off tomorrow first thing

i will also call pat back on her mobile which she rang me on , and mention again about john mann, just to be certain.

thanks again x

Hocuspocus
03-03-2008, 08:48 PM
Hi Mich
Have you got the letter sent to you saying that you will get your money back you Will have the name on it.

Also the guy who said to you " oh i thought the invoice was copy" means he he has actually seen it?:(

What a joke, i would defiantly get the LBA in to keep your back covered for another angle.

they just shouldn't be treating you this way:(:(

thinking of you ((()))

Tamadus
03-03-2008, 11:25 PM
Send that LBA Mitch, this crowd are dancing around their handbags at the moment and delaying everything. The LBA might just concentrate their attention long enough to honour their promise.

Personally I would stop phoning them now and insist everything is in writing as it may be needed as evidence if this does go to court.

Dragonlady
04-03-2008, 08:11 AM
At least this thread can act as Diary and be reproduced should things go awry.

They have stuffed up and now are tryng their level best at damage control now Mich has involved the CEO's office.

The LBA will focus their attention.

michsienna
04-03-2008, 12:17 PM
hi thank you for all your replys, i have sent of the letter before action off today recorded delievery to john mann. that pat lady hasent rang yet, but i think i have found a direct number for the CE of glos city homes on the net, so after collecting my son from nursery i will call that number. xx

Dragonlady
04-03-2008, 12:45 PM
Don't make another phone call. you have phoned them enough. Just wait. The letter will arrive tomorrow and this will focus their minds.

They all say they are going to phone, they don't, they go home and forget about things.

You have sent the letter, they will know what you are intending to do. leave it at that. it is now up to them. they have until the 17 March to soret themselves out.

michsienna
04-03-2008, 02:35 PM
hi everyone pat has just rang me to say the money will be payed by check or straight into my account in 10 days time she said thats how long it takes, i said so which is it , if your gonna pay it in to my account i want to give you my bank details again, she told me to hang on and she will find out, she came back on the line to tell me she will call me back.......

michsienna
04-03-2008, 02:36 PM
shall i tell her i sent the letter before action of to them today...when she rings me back

michsienna
04-03-2008, 02:39 PM
i wasnent being a pain asking so which method are they going to pay me, i just wanted to be sure they had all the relavent details so no more hicups would come from this

michsienna
04-03-2008, 02:41 PM
is there any thing more i should ask her when she calls back??

Dragonlady
04-03-2008, 04:19 PM
No don't tell her anything at all. If they don't pay up this time, they can't say they haven't been warned

michsienna
04-03-2008, 04:26 PM
okay thanks for that, she hasent called back any way, i only asked which method of payment it would be becos i want to give them my bank details again, xx

michsienna
04-03-2008, 04:29 PM
4got to mention about 30 mins ago the reception lady dianne called to ask how every thing was going, i told her im waiting on a call back from a lady called,pat and i aslo mentioned she said payment will be made in 10 days time, diannes responce to this was a tut
she said if i ent heared any thing from pat by friday to call her (dianne) back again.

Dragonlady
04-03-2008, 05:15 PM
They are trying hard to fix this since your call the CEO's office yesterday, but play hard ball with them now.

I would not call any of them, make them sweat.

michsienna
04-03-2008, 05:18 PM
hi pat has just called back, she told me money will be paid into my account in 10 days time, she said this how long it takes, again i never said i have sent them a letter before action today.
she told me if money wasent in my account in 10 days time to call her back via the main number x

Dragonlady
04-03-2008, 08:20 PM
10 days means it will be the 15th. This will co-incide with the LBA timings. What a co-incidence. Let's see what happens on the 15th.

Hocuspocus
04-03-2008, 08:53 PM
If its not in then call her back??? :( so what she is saying is it may be. At least all your moves are in place Mich, wait till they get tomorows post hehehehehe

Tamadus
04-03-2008, 10:02 PM
Mitch,

No more phoning them is the golden rule now. The LBA will hit their doormat in the morning and I can promise you they will start making all those return calls they have promised you.

If you keep phoning them it will take the sting out of the LBA and make it look as if it is only a toothless threat.

No more calls to them will make them start sweating. I can assure you that nobody in that council wants to be appearing in a court. So make them sweat and I guarantee they will get that payment sorted before the 15th.

This is a war of nerves now so you must show them your a better poker player than they are :D

Hocuspocus
05-03-2008, 02:05 PM
Just checking in :) did the letter go recorded delivery, I'm eager to know when they get/got it.:D

michsienna
05-03-2008, 03:22 PM
hi yes i sent it first class recorded x

michsienna
05-03-2008, 03:27 PM
i just went on to royal mail to check if its been delivered

Your item with reference DW169441053GB was delivered from our GLOUCESTER Delivery Office on 05/03/08 .

Thank you for using this service.

Sorry, an electronic proof of delivery is not available for this item

Hocuspocus
05-03-2008, 03:35 PM
OOoooo goodie goodie, im thinking they will now realise you are getting some sound advice and support elsewhere. :)

michsienna
05-03-2008, 03:36 PM
hi, me too xx

Tamadus
05-03-2008, 11:51 PM
Mark my words, they will be in touch within 48 hours.

Dragonlady
06-03-2008, 08:16 AM
Opening the post this morning will be an interesting for Mr John Mann . I hope his dunking biscuits and morning cuppa are to hand

michsienna
06-03-2008, 08:57 AM
oh how i do hope so!!! xx

Dragonlady
06-03-2008, 10:04 AM
10.03, he must be having his morning cuppa now (cue laughter)

Hocuspocus
06-03-2008, 10:46 AM
opens letter ...spits coffee over Mich real invoice that they've have had all along.:D

michsienna
06-03-2008, 11:16 AM
lol, i shouldent get to excited but...... i just missed the post woman and some thing has been sent to me special delievery (ent that garrented next day delievery) so i have to go down sorting office later and collect it.

could it be my check!!! it cant be any thing els, i only get bills thru my door xx

Dragonlady
06-03-2008, 11:18 AM
How soon is the baby due Mich? We do have to keep you in a relative state of calmness.

It would be wonderful if it is a chque for you.